Macbeth declares an impassioned phrase when he feels that he is caught in all the turmoil he has created. He says, "It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood... (Act 3).
What did Macbeth mean? How does this ring true for Macbeth? How does this also connect to the situtation Jack and Ralph find themselves in Lord of the Flies. Also, include any final impressions of LOF. What did you think?
How did the annotating go for you? Did you feel as though there was a change in your learning/ understanding of the text? Are you seeing big connections to Macbeth?
Macbeth, in stating "...blood will have blood," meant his consequence for killing the king will come to him soon, in the form of blood. He is in fear of dying because the cost for blood spilled is more blood spilled. This is true for Macbeth because he is most likely going to be found guilty; because of people figuring things out like MacDuff and Banquo, and will be tried for treason if so. This connects with LOF specifically toward Jack and Ralph because after first blood is spilled, Simon's and Piggy's, the fight continues between them to determine who's blood is spilled next, or in return. However this does not get resolved because the navy in the end has found the boys.
ReplyDeleteThe ending of LOF was absolutely my favorite! Things began to link and connect and I got a better understanding of the island and the true personalities of the characters. When the navy came an interesting sensation came over me... Ralph and the officer talked about how they were fighting and having a war and two kids died and all this. The way they discussed it, however, seemed like they were just playing around, like the war and fighting and savages and corruption that had happened was just a game. Like I said it left me with a weird feeling and the thought that even when the grownups/navy came they didn't fix anything, and that the kids who had been through all of this have a better understanding of man's treachery and horrific heart. Also, it was interesting how much detail there was about how orderly the navy looked in comparison to the savage, painted boys with sticks. Going back to the fact that the navy didn't even understand what monstrosity happened here shows that maybe even the modern and organized armies/ big guns do the same sort of savage stuff, but cover it up with their uniforms and ranks. (like Ralph and the officer did about the boys on the island, basically saying, "boys will be boys")
Annotating LOF made the reading very interesting especially when things began to click with other/earlier parts in the novel or with new things in Macbeth. My comprehension of the book increased because I could flip back to earlier annotations and make connections and answer questions I had. Through the first part of LOF I couldn't see too many connections with Macbeth but later I linked the murders of Duncan with murders of Simon and Piggy, as well as the guilt and figurative language used to symbolize the guilt. (for example: Macbeth guilt=blood on hands, and Macbeth coverup=night... LOF guilt=fog over island,etc., and LOF coverup=crazed hunter dance/night)
*if anyone can answer my question about how macbeth linked to LOF earlier in the story and other than physical murder and guilt it would be much appreciated ;)
In his quote “Blood will have blood…” Macbeth is saying a crime must be put to justice. So King Duncan’s death must be put right with the death of Macbeth. In other words, for every action there is a consequence. In Lord of the Flies Jack and his followers can accused for doing wrong on the island and now all the power they gained wail killing others will be taken awy with the coming of the commander.
ReplyDeleteAlso my final impression was disappointed. My favorite characters Piggy and Simon were killed. Jack who represents evil survives with all his cronies And Ralph is friendless and gets scolded by the commander for not being civilized British boys, which is very unfair after what Ralph experienced.
In my opinion annotating is very useful. It helps the reader make connections both inside and outside the book. Also it helps the reader find the plot, symbols, themes and motifs. The connections in Lord of the Flies and Macbeth are evident through this year’s theme challenging the system. Jack rebels against Ralph’s civilized formation of government and Macbeth rebels against the common order 0f thins when he murders Duncan.
To me, it seems "...blood will have blood" is the same as an eye for and eye, a tooth for a tooth. This means that Macbeth will suffer the same fate as Duncan, that he will die as king. This idea came out a the end of LOF, when Jack and his tribe stole Piggy's glasses. Ralph wanted revenge, though he rationalized it as needing fire. All that came of this revenge was Piggy's death, Samneric's forceful induction into the tribe, and Ralph's banishment.
ReplyDeleteMy final impressions of LOF is the utter brutality. At the beginning, they were a group high class British school boys. Then, they turned to savage murder and insanity. This shows that humans, when they are boiled down to what they really are, can either turn good or bad. The majority of the island turned bad, except Ralph, Piggy, Samneric, and Simon.
Finally, one irony I found was that the way they were saved was the burning of the island. The boys had to destroy all they had in order to be rescued. Their savagery in burning the island is what saved them. If they had been rational and civilized, they would not have been rescued.
I will never forget Lord of the Flies.
I definitely agree with Matthew and Kimberly. When he says that "blood will have blood..." he is saying that everything can't just stop after king Duncan's murder. Something else is bound to happen, probably to him, because he was the one who committed the horrible sin, and he will probably be killed in the same way that Duncan was. He is now feeling guilt for what he has done, as an afterthought, so he is realizing that something bad is now going to happen to him. This is true to Macbeth because he is already having creepy thoughts and being overwhelmed with guilt, although nothing horrible has happened yet. I think this also means that naturally as humans, we want revenge. As Matthew said, an eye for and eye, and a tooth for a tooth, we are not settled to let others take advantage of us, so we fight back. In Lord of The Flies, this also applies. When Jack and Ralph split up, and have their own separate tribes, they fight non-stop. It eventually leads to two deaths, and they keep coming back to the other to try to hurt them more. I think it is wrong for them to keep fighting, especially when they all have the same goal of getting home, and it causes the deaths of two mostly innocent boys.
ReplyDeleteAs for the book in general, I honestly thought it was boring. I like adventure books, but to me, this was just like watching two kids fight. When there is no adult around, it causes more contention and violence because no one is there to monitor. I did not really like this book, but I think it was interesting to read. I have never annotated a book before, and it took me a long time. Although, it really did help me connect more to the book, and understand what was going on. I am not seeing huge connections to Macbeth, although I do see some, especially the theme of conflict and killing. Although they both have nothing to do with each other, they both are about killing, and betrayal, and the presence of evil is very much there.
Blood symbolizes guilt in “Macbeth,” so I think Macbeth’s quote, “Blood will have blood,” means that he will have both literal, and figurative, blood on his hands. Macbeth is saying that by following Lady Macbeth’s plan he will not only have to actually go through with killing Duncan, he will also have to live with the guilt.
ReplyDeleteJack and his ‘tribe’ reflect this in “Lord of the Flies”. They kill Sam and Piggy, and while on the island they make it seem like they needed to defend themselves and show that they are strong, but when they get home they will realize that they killed two people. That is an insane amount of guilt.
My impression of the book was disappointment. I thought the author had to wrap up the book in 3 pages so he decided to rescue the boys. The only good thing was the irony that presented itself at the end. Ralph got his fire because he revolted against Jack’s tribe, so in the end Ralph was right that fire was going to get the boys rescued. I have two questions though, what happened to the boy with the birthmark and how did Simon get wrapped up in the parachute?
For me annotating was tedious and slowed the book down a lot. I never really used the writing for the blog posts or questions in class.
I agree with most comments about Macbeth saying, "blood will have blood..." Because he knows there are consequences for his actions. Shakespeare is not so much talking about physical blood itself, but about blood figuratively meaning guilt, as Andrea said. This rings true for Macbeth because, as a tragic hero, we know how his actions are going to come back into play later on in this work.
ReplyDeleteI think this connects to LOF in the same sense that it is not only physical blood causing conflict with the boys, but guilt. It is hard to say if Jack feels any guilt at first when killing Piggy. This is a good comparison to Macbeth because both characters at first feel that it is what needs to be done, but what will happen to their mental state in the end?
I agree with Andrea and Whitney in terms of my impression of the book. There was too much nothing going on in the body of the book, when I read about the rescue at the end it was too rushed. I didn't feel any sense of understanding after reading the book. It was an interesting read in the sense that you see the savagry in people when they are reduced to nothing, and that was the most interesting aspect to me throughout the book.
I have never annotated before, and it's not something I particularly like. I am an avid reader, and I find it easier to read without annotating. It did help when I wanted to write down connections to Macbeth, but that's about it.
I thought there was a great connection between Macbeth and LOF. The big thing for me was the connection between characters. When I was reading LOF, I kept seeing Macbeth in Jack. They are so much alike in them wanting to challenge the system, and wanting so much to be leader they are willing to do anything, like murder. I also noticed how the guilt of killing influenced their mental state, and how both of them will end up crazy.
Macbeth saying " blood will have blood... " indicates what everyone above has interpreted. Macbeth realizes the consequences of murdering King Duncan, his own blood is on the line at this point. I think Macbeth will start to become paranoid and loose control of his " cool ". In comparison to Lord of the Flies, Ralph recognizes that he is in danger. Not for killing another person, but for standing up to Jack.
ReplyDeleteI really loved the ending of Lord of the Flies, especially the final confrontation between Ralph and the officer. It brought back the real world and all of the boys were practically scalded for not behaving like adults, but who can blame them?
I have never annotated before so that was the most difficult part of this process. I am a total speed reader so I really had to work on slowing down and putting my analysis on paper.
"...Blood will have blood..." is like what Matthew is saying, an eye for an eye. If Macbeth does something bad, it will be returned in the same way.He killed Duncan and now he's going to end up paying. Ralph and Jack fit into this because they both ended up killing one of their friends or attempting to. They killed Simon, Piggy and almost Ralph. When the blood is provoked, there will be even more spilled due to it.
ReplyDeleteThe ending of this book was very odd. Jack and his gang were throwing boulders off the mountain in hopes Ralph gets killed. Then Ralph goes into a sleep state and wakes up with a naval officer and he doesnt understand what happened here and then they start crying. WHO ENDS A BOOK WITH CRYING? It just doesnt fit. They could have been arrested or brought on the ship, but they had to CRY. It was a very weird ending to say the least.
The annotating to me was an ok help. I really didn't need it in some parts, and in others it would have, but overall, sometimes annotating is just a waste. It doesn't really help instead of showing the teacher your thinking. I am seeing connections to Macbeth. There is one party that is defying the rules and they break away in hopes of being something greater, but in turn something lesser.
"blood will have blood..." to me says that karma is a huge role in everything. With this quote spoken by Macbeth, I can assume he meets a similar fate to Duncan, murdered by Macduff perhaps. I read the above blog posts, and agree with Andrea and Abby that blood could also mean a form of guilt and is part of the guidelines for a tragic hero.
ReplyDeleteWhen presented with this quote, Lord of the Flies shows that Jack and his followers have killed Sam and Piggy, giving them undesirable amounts of guilt, which they might commit or one of the other boys would kill them out of new-found rage for their fellow strandees.
As for my impression on the end of the book, I was both impressed and disappointed. Impressed at the author for deciding to rescue the boys because after all the action during the body, it was nice to take a break. I was disappointed, because the author decided to rescue the boys, which was a kind of cop-out but I can't blame the author because "happy" ending was better then everybody dies at some point.
Annotating in the actual book is new to me, but I was used to writing my thoughts down on a separate piece of paper from last year. I found this method of annotating faster because you didn't have to take out a notebook just for that when you've got all the paper needed right there in front of you. I noticed many characters, like Jack and Piggy, corresponded to Macbeth by being similar to Macbeth and Banquo for example.
"Blood will have blood". In this quote by the tragic hero, I thought that Macbeth meant that he will suffer a similar fate like Duncan has sufered. I think he means that because the death of Duncan means that his spirit will take revenge on Macbeth. This rings true also for the situations of Jack and Ralph because after Simon and Piggy get killed, then Jack goes insane and wants to kill Ralph, so more blood shed just makes more blood.
ReplyDeleteThe ending of the book for me was a little confusing because they were in the middle of chasing Ralph when the Naval Officer come and his precense stops the savages. I think it is because of real authority that makes them stop, because throughout the story it has been their thoughts of "adults" that stop some from hurting others, like Roger purposely missing Percival when he is throwing stones. I do not agree with Paul when he says that ending the book with crying is weird. The crying symbolizes hope, because though they were reduced to evil, guilt still shakes them like in Macbeth, proving that there could be still some good in humans.
Annotating wents slow for me because i have never annotated a book before. I thought though that it helped me understand the book more, because I had to think deeply. Unlike Aaron, I did not think that Jack and Piggy corresponded to Macbeth and Banquo because they werent friends in the beggining like Macbeth and Banquo were. There were not really big connections I found other then guilt, murder, and the thirst for power.
When Macbeth states "It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood...” he is saying that blood only lead to more blood. When he says “It will have blood they say” he is saying that the future holds blood because he killed King Duncan and spilled his blood. This means that Macbeth foresees blood in his future from the blood he spilled. This rings true because he knows that eventually the truth will be unveiled and only by blood will this ordeal end. This relates to Lord of the Flies because the tribe spilled a lot of blood Jack continued to kill pigs and boys until everyone was in the tribe except for the littluns and Ralph. Jack started to hunt Ralph down trying to end the dispute between the two groups by killing of the leader of the other group. The difference is that there is no way to know that Jack would be paid back in blood. I really liked this book but sometimes found it confusing with the sayings because they were English sayings I had never heard before. It was a very good book though. Annotating went very well for me because it helped understand the text because I could relate it to things I understood. I wrote a lot of questions that gave me an in depth look at the text. There are big connections in Macbeth like both Jack and Macbeth are power hungry and want to be leaders. There is also the connection between Ralph and King Duncan because Ralph was elected leader and everyone liked him and he was nicer to the people they were ruling. Macbeth and Jack are harsh and everyone just likes them for their bravery and kills.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the general idea of the posts concerning “blood will have blood.” Blood symbolizes guilt and Macbeth is covered in blood after he kills Duncan. It also works when Lady Macbeth smears the blood on the servants she is covering the king’s chamberlains with guilt. This connects to LOF because Jack kept initiating killing and death and nothing good came from that but when the Navy sergeant asks Ralph who is in charge he claims himself to be chief and Jack doesn’t even fight it because he realizes that he was never really a true ruler, just a forced second choice.
ReplyDeleteMy overall impressions regarding LOF was that it seemed like it was directed towards a more cynical and deep audience instead of a book about a bunch of boys. I don’t think it was very realistic because most boys, even at their lowest wouldn’t kill people just because they don’t like them and they are scared. One question I had was why did they set the island on fire? Where did that come from? It seemed to me it was just thrown in there for a reason to be rescued and that certainly was not Jack’s goal.
Annotating to my just took up time and made reading LOF more of a tedious chore than usual reading. I typically like reading but when I had to annotate I didn’t really look at the whole book. The biggest connection I saw was the murder of innocence later on in the book. In Macbeth a good and holy king was murdered just like in LOF genuine Simon and intelligent, naïve Piggy were both killed when they were trying to help everyone and move toward civil-ness.
When Macbeth said, "blood will have blood..." he means that in result of killing the king, Macbeth's punishment will soon catch up to him and it will include blood. Macbeth finally realized that every wrong deed will follow with an equal consequence. In Lord of the Flies many of the children broke away from the original pack to start their own, they have broken the rules and created their own form of government, they did not know that death and blood will be spilled in result of destroying an orderly government. For the children that followed the laws and did what they were supposed to do tried to fix the problems and inn return were brutally murdered.
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ReplyDelete“…Blood will have blood…” makes me think that there will be an eye for an eye (like Paul and Matt said) and that karma always comes back to hurt people. I think what Macbeth meant when he said this is that he will have to pay for what he did to the king. It’s like there will be a big consequence for what he did. He also might think that he will have to pay for it in the amount of blood that Duncan had to. This relates to LOF because Jack spilled a lot of blood by killing all of those pigs and kind of used death as a threat. But I don’t think that Jack will repay anyone with blood, but more like he will spill out his pride and his confidence will be a whole lot lower
ReplyDeleteOver the entire book Lord of the Flies was okay. I didn’t really enjoy it but I did not hate it. The annotating was very hard for me because is broke up the book. I kept re-reading lines and in the end I just got frustrated. But otherwise it was good.
I agree with everyone else that has said that “blood will have blood…” means that with Macbeth’s murderous actions come with consequences. I believe that Macbeth will die that same way the result of a murderous act. This connects to “Lord of the Flies” because when Ralph tried to do thing his way instead of compromising he caused Jack to leave and form his own tribe. This caused the two tribes to fight for the top position. Ralph tried to force everyone to do things his way and so as a result they all went to Jack. Ralph tried to get everyone back but karma came and bit him in the butt and Piggy got killed. There were some major ironies in the last four chapters of “Lord of the Flies”. I found it interesting, as Matthew said that the boy’s uncivilized behavior is what saved them in the end. My final impression of “Lord of the Flies” was that it was very well written and I like how Golding used evil as the base for the book I just think that it ended very quickly.
ReplyDeleteI liked annotating I’ve never used the tool before and it really helped me understand in depth the plot line of the story and the true message that the author was trying to get across. I did feel like I was able to control the way that I understood “Lord of the Flies”. I did also see a ton of connections between Shakespeare’s “Macbeth” and Golding’s “Lord of the Flies”. The main connection that I made was that there was so much evil in both and when you broke down whom each of the character was they were truly just evil.
When Macbeth says, "blood will have blood..." he was referring to the fact that he has killed another innocent man so now he will have the same consequence. This is also suggesting that the killing will not end here for Macbeth. If blood will have blood then murder will lead to further murders, with Macbeth either as the committer or the victim. This quote relates to Lord of the Flies because Jack and Ralph spark a conflict which escalated until bloodshed occurred. Like Macbeth said, this bloodshed lead to another death of another kid. If the Naval officer had not arrived on the beach when Ralph collapsed with exhaustion then there would have been yet another casualty. After all of the opposing forces against Jack's tribe who knows what would happen? Jack might have begun to not only punish boys for no reason, but now execute them as well. This could lead to even more internal bloodshed from within Jack's own clan, whether it would be internal struggles, uprisings, or executions. Demonstrated in both stories, blood will ultimately lead to more blood. Lord of the Flies was a very interesting eye opener for me because it demonstrated how even the most civilized people can become savages in a matter of weeks.
ReplyDeleteAs for annotating goes, i found that it went extremely slow for me. I actually think that having to annotate was more of a hindrance then a help. Personally, I like to read without having to stop and take notes every so often. On the contrary though I can see how annotating was helpful for my comprehension of the story. It allowed me to make real world connections and made me really analyze the events of the Lord of the Flies.
When Macbeth said, “It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood”, he most likely means that he is feeling that he will be caught by his friends and most likely killed by his friends for killing the king for the sake of becoming the king. This is true for Macbeth because he is a tragic hero and they always die. Even from reading a small portion of Macbeth, I can tell he is going to die. This also is true for Lord of the Flies because the deaths of Piggy and Simon helped bring the island back to civilization because Ralph started to be hunted by jack and the others. The other tribe set fire to the island and the ship saw the smoke. My final impression of Lord of the Flies is that Golding thought that human society has a fragile balance between peace and chaos. If you read the notes in the back of the book it has Golding’s views and reasons for writing the book. I think that the book was very good and that everyone should read it. While I did the annotations, I paid more attention to what happened in the book so I could make annotations. Many big connections can be made between Macbeth and Lord of the Flies like how there is a tragic hero or heroes in each book. However, one major one I am seeing is how the tragic hero has to die to make every thing right.
ReplyDeleteMacbeth says "It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood...” after he realizes the destruction and confusion he has created. This means, yes it is murderous but that usually is the case with murder. And yes it is treacherous and unmoral but nothing higher can be expected with such an act. This is very true to character for Macbeth because he knew what murdering king Duncan would entail and now that he is looking back on it he sees how blind he was and how he shouldn’t have expected short of guilt. From Lord of the Flies Jack and Ralph are in a similar situation in the perspective of the “savages” murdering Piggy and Simon and how the savages had no goal except to slaughter Ralph and kill pigs. But when you think about it Ralph shouldn’t expect any thing better from the poorly led misguided boys. After all jack has been showing this savagery since the very beginning with the blinders on only focused on killing and gaining power. The ending of lord of the flies was way too abrupt, and very predictable. Because you knew that Ralph would die or be saved by someone or something separate of the two “tribes”. And the whole rescue takes up about a paragraph while the whole chase scene takes multiple pages. Overall I thought the book was unoriginal. I read Treasure Island and the two are very similar with the whole stranded on the island strain. But I think the whole leadership problem was well thought out and weaved well into the plot. I hated annotating the book because I feel like nothing I wrote down was very helpful to my understanding of the book. But I liked how they forced me to read slower so I didn’t miss parts. The biggest connection between Macbeth and LOF is the struggle for power and the willingness of characters to act on a whim. Such as Macbeth’s willingness to kill King Duncan simply because the prophecy from the witches projected him to be king. Then in LOF the willingness of the boys to join jack even though his priorities are mismatched and has no real argument for them to join him.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Karyn that there is a definite connection between Ralph and King Duncan and Jack and Macbeth. I also think that both King Duncan and Ralph appeased Jack and Macbeth, they (Jack and Macbeth) were both so power-hungry that it didn't matter. I think that when Macbeth says,"It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood..." he is saying that his prophecy ("it") will be bloody and the witches ("they") prophesized that. This rang true for Macbeth because he has already murdered the King and I think he is going to kill Donalbain and Malcolm, too. Annotating for was new. I have never wrote down my thoughts about a book directly after I have them. It helped me understand Lord of the Flies better because I had to think not just what the words on the page are saying, but what the characters are thinking, how they connect, etc.
ReplyDeleteI think that what Macbeth is trying to say is that, problems will create problems and that there isn’t any way out. “Blood will have blood...” I believe this means that violent actions will always be violent actions. This rings true for Macbeth because he murders Duncan and by doing so spills innocent blood and is creating multiple problems for not only himself but other as well. This is true for Ralph and Jack because after the murder of Simon and very clear separation of the tribes, blood was being spilt and problems were creating problems, any attempt to fix anything only made situations worse.
ReplyDeleteMy final impressions of The Lord of The Flies were very disturbed. It seemed that the author was trying to demonstrate that when humans are stripped of everything and everyone they will be savage and their survival instincts would return to them. I felt frightened for Ralph while he was being chased by the other boys. I also thought that the rescue was bittersweet because it was good for the boys who made it that long but Piggy and Simon and the others who passed were not as lucky. I’m also a little bit confused about what happened to Jack.
Annotating was a slightly difficult for me just because I was not used to doing it but once I started making the big connections it became much easier and helped me stay focused during my reading. I am seeing many connections to Macbeth ion the end of the book and looking back there were a few clear connections.
When Macbeth says this, I have to agree with everyone else, he means for every action, the is a consequence. He is realizing what he has done, and that he will have to pay in some way for that, either with his blood or some other way. As for Lord of the Flies, a lot of death was at the end. Each of those deaths had a consequence. Not only was it death, but fighting had many consequences too. I liked the book, but I feel like it was hard to understand. Maybe if I went back and reread it, I would understand more. Annotating did help though, it helped me realize other connections outside of the book. It’s amazing how much Macbeth connects to Lord of the Flies! I never would have realized without annotating and really thinking about the book.
ReplyDeleteAfter the chaos that Macbeth Creates after murdering King Duncan, he states, “Blood will have blood…” This means that once there is one act of violence, it is always followed by more violence. Humans never seem to have the compassion to just forgive and forget what other people do. This applies to history, everyday life, and obviously, the book, The Lord of the Flies. The predicament between Jack and Ralph has escalated from just a simple disagreement to a full scale war. As the power struggle between them constantly becomes more and more serious, I am getting the idea that this book, or at least for the most part, is an allegory of World War Two. This is because just like in history, the disagreements between Hitler (Jack) and FDR (Ralph), the savagery escalates into complete bloodshed that no one wins. I would say that this book has been less than average. There have been many parts that I wish that I could just put the book down and quit. However, the ending of the book had made it a little bit more worthwhile. The annotating, I thought was a complete waste of time. I think that it did not enhance my learning, and if anything, it just made me want to read the book even less. I would have been more inclined to read it if all that I had to do would be read it. Basically, the major connection between this book and Macbeth would be the list for power. The struggle for power is the premise for both of these books.
ReplyDeleteMacbeth is really saying, "For the blood I have spilt, there will be more blood...mine." In other words, Macbeth has turned those around him that used to be friends into enemies, even if those around him don't know it yet. This connects to Lord of the flies, since Jack and Ralph have hurt others in one way or another, and those that they hurt will sonn reciprocate the favor. Another interpretation of mine is that: to cover up the blood that Macbeth has spilt, he must spill more blood to cover it up. Malcolm and Donelbain, perhaps? The same thing goes for Jack. To stay in power, he may have to kill one or more of the other boys. Either way, they are not good situations.
ReplyDeleteWhen Macbeth says, "It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood..." he means that because of his actions, he will be punished, and he knows it. It is becoming more and more obvious as the book goes on that Macbeth cannot seem to handle his actions. He is becoming unhinged and is very different then he was at the beginning of the play. This is similar to Lord of The Flies because there was blood spilled from Simon and Piggy. There was sin on the island from the very beginning with the hostility towards PIggy. Jack becomes insane much like Macbeth.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading Lord of the Flies, it left me with a bad feeling. The author is obviously making this book into a metaphor for his feelings of how human life is. It is depressing but I thought the story was interesting and fun to read.
With annotating, I think It did help with comparison, but I noticed that I was wanting to read the book less and less. I think that I would have enjoyed the book more and still would have gotten a lot out of the story if I had not had to annotate. As for the connections with Macbeth, I agree that annotating helped a lot with that. Without the annotations, I would not have drawn quite as many connections as I have now.
When Macbeth states, “… blood will have blood,” he probably means that what goes around comes around. Macbeth has killed Duncan and so at some point Macbeth is going to feel the pain of what he had done. This relates to Lord of the Flies in that Ralph stood up for himself (against Jack). Jack severely disliked Ralph already, and this just set him off more. This insult to Jack meant that Ralph had to feel the pain and humiliation that he felt. Even if Ralph didn’t purposefully cause this and he didn’t rightfully deserve to be hunted, it happened.
ReplyDeleteAfter completing Lord of the Flies, I honestly will say that I didn’t really like it all that much. It was too twisted and messed up for my liking; it almost irritated me how narrow minded the characters could be. But at the same time I really enjoyed how it made me think, it is not a book where I always knew exactly how events would play out. The writing was also quite beautiful and I could appreciate that, but it was just too (as Ian said) unoriginal. I felt as though I had already read it, but i hadn't. Annotating was kind of a hassle. I couldn’t really relate to the writing much so it took longer than I hoped. Being as it was, I feel like annotating made me pay more attention to the book; I won’t just forget what I read because I had to spend the time to think about it too. The main similarity between Macbeth and Lord of the Flies is probably the desire for bloodshed. At least one of the characters in each story is completely willing to kill another for personal gain. Its pretty messed up really.
Like every other comment, I also think that when Macbeth said the "blood" quote, he meant that his punishment is coming and is bound to include the spilling of blood, if not his own.
ReplyDeleteThis relates to Jack and Ralph in the way that Simon and Piggy had to die so that the big fire could start and they would be rescued. The end of Lord of the Flies was kind of perturbing. It really bothered me throughout the book how savage and cruel Jack and most of the other boys were. Its really scary, thinking that civilized humans could end up like that, murdering and hurting each other like they did. Although it scared me a bit, I actually enjoyed the book. I would like to reread it so that i can understandit and the symbolism in it more fully.
Annotating was a challenge for me and I didn't enjoy it whatsoever. Firstly because I read and then process it more deeply later. And then also because I don't like stopping in the middle of reading to write down a connection, etc. It disrupts my thinking about the story. When looking back at the reading I see the connection between Macbeth and LOF, but I don't think the annotating helped me much.
Blood will have blood, an eye for an eye, and payback are all the same. Macbeth has murdered sleep and therefore the same shall become of him. His actions will lead to his ultimate demise. Jack in lord of the flies is out for revenge. From the beginning Jack wanted to be chief. When he finally broke off he still wasn’t completely in control and Ralph kept appearing. He felt what was robbed from him would now be robbed from Ralph. He forgot though that when you embark on a journey of revenge, you should first dig two graves.
ReplyDeleteThe final chapters of Lord of the Flies are 60 pages of reading I will never forget. All throughout the inhabitants become more and more savage. They practically rip Simon apart with their own teeth. Jack becomes more demoralized and all he can see is an objective and how to carry it out. A calculated hunting machine, back to the roots of Neanderthals and woolly mammoths. I was very impressed at how the author conveyed our deepest instinct and how even the slightest shift in balance can kick it in. But I was disappointed at the fact that the book abruptly ended. No falling action or plot wind down. One minute Ralph is tearing through the trees, the next a navy officer is looking down at them telling the group that they are going to be rescued. The annotating went pretty smoothly. It was a little bit of a nuisance to have to stop every page or so when you thought of something, but other than that it went fine.
I agree with Maria I think that when Macbeth states,"...blood will have blood," he is saying that what goes around comes around. He has killed a king that everybody loved and now something is going to happen to him to make him pay for spilling all that blood. I think that this relates to LOF because Jack spilled lots of pigs blood and I agree with Rachel he used death as a threat.
ReplyDeleteAfter I finished Lord of the Flies I have to say i did not love it. There were some parts and phrases in the book i could not understand because it was English. I think that annotating helped me understand the book more. I could make connection and ask questions. Now i can go back and answer my own questions. It also made me relate things to the real world. Annotating definitely helped me make connections to Macbeth. Without annotating i think I would not have made as many connections as I did.
I agree with everyone else that has said "blood will have blood..." means that blood will lead to more blood. In my mind that means that Macbeth will have the same fate Duncan had being death. Macbeth will get caught and will receive his payback. This relates to LOF because of the way Simon and Piggy dies. Even though it didn’t come back around to Jack theses boys let their emotions and wants take control of who they because. Macbeth wanted to become King so he did what he had to like jack formed a rival tribe. When I was reading this book I got a little bored. In the middle I felt like it dragged on a little bit. Once I got to the last 30 pages I couldn’t put it down. I wanted to know what happened to all the boys, especially Jack. I don’t like Jack at all. I feel like he was the reason Simon and Piggy both died. If he didn’t create another tribe I think they could’ve stuck together and helped each other out. Through out the book annotation got much easier. It was hard at first cause I didn’t really know what I was suposted to do but once i got further if got more comfortable. I wish the whole book could have been like the last 30 pages but it defiantly was a good book and has changed the way I look at things, especially evil.
ReplyDeleteI think that Macbeth meant that he will eventually end up paying the consequences of his actions through his own death. Someone will eventually find out that he killed King Duncan, and then he will be charged with murder and be killed for it. This rings true for Macbeth because Macduff already doesn’t like Macbeth and suspects him of something fishy. Macbeth realizes that his actions will have the consequences, and that the consequences won’t be pleasant. This situation also turns up in Lord of the Flies because Jack and his tribe end up murdering Simon, and then Piggy as well. As a consequence for their actions, Jack and his tribe set the island on fire and will end up being stranded there, while Ralph and the littuns are going to be rescued.
ReplyDeleteI thought that the book was pretty boring at first, but the ending was really good to me. It shows how bad humanity can get when they are pushed to the limits of their existence outside of civilized society. Jack and his tribe turned from nice, polite British choir boys to brutal savages with only hunting and meat in their minds. I thought that the annotating was ok, but for me, it made me lose focus of the book’s meaning. It did make me understand some things a little better, but it made the reading choppy and hard to do. I can see many connections to Macbeth, such as betrayal to the obvious leader that ends up to the death of someone and the need of humankind to be in control of their own destiny, like Jack and Macbeth.
I think that when Macbeth says "...blood will have blood." it means that who ever blood was spilled they will have revenge resulting in blood too. I think that this relates to Macbeth because he is a very violent man and knowing his character, he take revenge resulting in death by using violence. In Lord of the Flies Jack wants Ralph to feel pain and humiliation of him not having any one to lead and being a loner just like he had been. Jack wanted Ralph to know what it felt like to be alone and not have anyone to trust.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of Lord of the Flies i didn't understand what Jack was trying to accomplish buy chasing Ralph. Was he going to kill him or just scare him and hurt him? Jack did not deserve to be rescued in my opinion and i agree with Maddie that it was really his fault that Simon and Piggy both died.The one Question that i wish had been answered was what will happen to all the boys once they get home?
I think what Macbeth means when he says, "It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood... (Act 3),” is that no indecent deed goes unpunished. Since he killed King Duncan he is now living in fear for his own life as well as for his wife’s life. If they are suspected and found guilty, their actions will be paid for with their lives. This situation relates to what is happening in Lord of the Flies because of the deaths that keep occurring. First Simon is killed, then in an attempt by Ralph, Piggy, and Samneric to confront Jack about what happened, Piggy is killed. These things lead to a brawl between Jack and Ralph. They then try to kill each other, which in the end does not lead to one of them dying, but comes very close. My final impressions of the book were mixed. I think that the overall themes and lessons throughout the novel were excellent and the plot was great, but I am very disappointed that Piggy and Simon die. I also would have liked it if somehow Jack was punished in the end. Annotating was a good experience for me since I had never done it before but it also was very frustrating. I tried to put as many thoughts into the novel as possible and that was very time consuming. I think it did help me overall to understanding what the book was about and what it meant. The biggest connection I am seeing between Macbeth and Lord of the Flies is a theme of power. Macbeth, Jack, and Ralph all want to be in command and there isn’t much that is going to stop them from getting what they want.
ReplyDeleteI find it sensible for Macbeth to ssay a quote like that at the time he did. He meant that in order for is quest for the crown to come true, it will involve death (Duncan and maybe his son). And we all know at one point, something dramatic will happen to Macbeth to follow up his brutal actions of killing, showing then death has it’s consiquences. One can not expect to et aay with murder and not to be punished later, one way or another.
ReplyDeleteThis is true in LOF when Jack and his hunters decide to eat pig rather then follow Ralph’s plan of rescue by fire. When the island was set on fire, it was a risk his tribe took. The island would eaither burn out, leaving them exposed with no more fire wood or food, or kill off Ralph. Jack was very foolish to take that risk, but in the end, they were rescued because the smoke from the fire had been seen by the navy. “Blood will have blood” means to me that bad actions will have consiquences, which we will see later in our reading of Macbeth, but not so much as we already saw in LOF.
Annotatiing was a pain for me, as I can remember what occurs in a book without having to writye it down. But I did find myself very opportunistsic in the way I took my notes because I wrote down every single detail of the chapters I read so it looks like to me the book LOF in a smaller form. The connections to Macbeth are emminent, with the evil-doing of one out of two close characters (betrayal) and the pain they undertake. I ca see now why we are reading these two books simultaneously because they both can relate to each other in many ways.
Macbeth’s quote, “‘Blood will have blood,’” in my mind refers to Karma. What goes around comes around; Macbeth murdered Duncan and now he will be destroyed. We also often see in the world today how bloodshed can lead to much more bloodshed. The suffering of civilians in an oppressed country can spark an entire war, such as Iraq, or a single assassination can lead to something as bloody as World War I. In Lord of the Flies, the instant Jack recognizes bloodshed as a symbol of his power, he began obsessing over it. The death of one pig eventually leads to the murder of Simon and Piggy, and nearly the murder of Ralph. Jack punishes his savages and kills for no reason other than blood and to display his power. Like Jared C, I believe that had the sailor in the Navy not come to rescue them, Jack would not have stopped spilling blood until only he was left on the island. Eventually I think he would have even killed himself out of insanity.
ReplyDeleteI personally really enjoyed Lord of the Flies. I found it interesting to glimpse inside the mind of Golding who experienced the horrors of World War II firsthand and to see how much the war thwarted his view of the human race. I don’t agree with him that mankind, in its core, is evil and power-hungry, but I do believe we all have to work hard to not give in to the Devil side of us. The end of the book made me wonder if returning to civilization will really return the boys’ lives to normal. Will the savages be able to civilize themselves again? Will Ralph live in perpetual fear of the evil of mankind? The Navy soldier turned a blind eye to the violence and horror occurring on the island, dismissing it as child’s play. This seems very symbolic to me of how the world accepted the Jewish concentration camps as simply holding camps. All throughout the war they turned a blind eye to the suffering occurring right under their noses, until the evidence was shoved into their faces. Does society too often ignore the evils occurring around it? I know at school there are plenty of instances when we could work harder to eliminate cruelty, but instead ignore the evils happening right in front of us.
Annotating Lord of the Flies helped me understand the novel because it made me look back at the text and see beyond what was written on the page. I saw symbols and deeper meanings that otherwise I would have missed. Like Anna S, the only connections I noticed between Lord of the Flies and Macbeth were the common themes of challenging the system and greed leading to murder. Lord of the Flies definitely taught me not to let fear or a thirst for power rule my life.
When Macbeth says, "Blood will have blood" I think that he meant that there are always consequences, and that blood will only lead to more blood, like Karyn said. I think that it could be almost like a chain reaction, that once one person is killed, there will be people who just want revenge, and then more people will be killed, so everyone is just better off not starting anything. Once Macbeth killed the king, he didn't stop and then killed the servants too. Once Jack started killing pigs he couldn't stop, and then he took that even farther and started killing real people. He might additionally be saying that there is no other compensation for killing other than killing, that there is no other worthy revenge. I also like how Andrea said that blood symbolizes guilt. "It will have blood they say." could mean that everything that has to do with blood in the sense of killing will always have guilt along with it.
ReplyDeleteI had a hard time believing the ending of Lord of the Flies and how those boys could be so savage and brutal. They actually went crazy and mad and insane! I did not like the book very much, I think that it was very slow, and that the entire story could have been told in half of those pages. I did not like the author's writing style, and I think that he made the book more confusing than it should have been. Annotating helped me a little at some parts, but I would rather just read the book. I think doing a bunch of projects makes it harder to focus on what is happening because your too busy trying to think of what you have to annotate instead of just concentrating on the book. I am seeing connections to Macbeth with the killings and evilness, but not super big ones.
Macbeth declared in act 3 that, "It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood...” This basically means that everything you do will come back and haunt you, or the belief of karma. Right now for Macbeth, he should be weary of this; I mean he just murdered the king! This also applies to Lord of the Flies because; now two of the boys have been killed. The awful part about the two boys dying is that, neither were of natural causes, but both basically murder. I found that my final impression of LOF was almost dumbfounded; it started from an almost innocent book of boy stranded on an island to a murder book. For me annotating is hard, I am generally I pretty fast reader, but annotating really slows me down. This is makes it very difficult to get my reading finished on time, and takes some Sunday night cramming. I also do see a lot of connections to Macbeth, like the murders, the complete lack of technology, and the almost entirely male characters! Mostly, I have realized how hard it must be for guys to read chick flicks because it is really hard for me to read a book about all guys and they decisions they make. It is completely opposite from what I know most girls would do.
ReplyDeleteLike most people have said before me, I too think that blood in the quote “Blood will have blood…” means karma. The act of killing Duncan is coming back to Macbeth in the same fate. He will have to suffer the consequences of his actions, and he knows what they are. This also applies to LOF in that once Jack felt the humiliation of not being chief, he set out on a mission to ensure that Ralph would feel the same way, and he would do whatever it took to do that. My final impressions of LOF were that it became really violent, and shows that only when a person is desperate, you see their true character. I also found is disturbing that Jack’s lust for power drove him to such extreme measures. Annotating was a new experience for me; I had never written in a book, and it felt strange. I think it probably helped me better interpret meaning in the book, but I had to keep reminding myself to write down questions and thoughts as they came to me. I didn’t have many connections to Macbeth until later in the book, when the ideas of guilt, authority and murder showed up.
ReplyDeleteWhen Macbeth says “…blood will have blood…”, it implies that since Macbeth killed Duncan and there was much bloodshed, Macbeth now with have his own bloodshed. Macbeth knows that his brutal act it will come back and haunt him and others will be thirsty for blood. This directly relates to LOF. After Piggy and Simon are killed, Jack wants more and more blood. He soon becomes vicious and hungry for pain. I would give LOF an overall 7. It started quite slow with the constant talk about the surroundings and setting. But when the book got into more of the action it was not bad. I wish the ending was different. Golding led up to this great ending through adrenalin pump as Jack and the gang hunt for Ralph. This is all soon bought down to a much softer, sadder note of them all crying. I wish it was less of a showing of feelings.
ReplyDeleteThe annotating went well. There were some parts throughout the book that I could not relate anything to. But, at many parts there was an obvious connection. Towards the last few chapters I could not find anything to relate it too. I did like the annotating though; I never thought to relate a book to yourself and other things you have read. The brutality and savage ways of the boys was nothing like what I have read before. I am seeing a couple connections to Macbeth, for example, the desire for power. But, overall I am not connecting a lot to it.
I think that “…blood will have blood” means that the blood Macbeth has shed will ultimately go further, and lead to more bloodshed and death. The acts of murder Macbeth has committed will in a way be “justified” with more bloodshed, showing that these kinds of acts cannot lead to or be resolved by peace and reason. This connects to LOF in the same way. After blood was shed the first time (Simon), there was no reasoning or understanding, just more bloodshed within bloodshed.
ReplyDeleteAs for LOF itself, I was not very impressed. Probably the main thing that I didn’t enjoy was the writing; I just found it so bland and hard to keep up with. When it comes to the plot/story I was quite disappointed. I thought that the story had an interesting premise, but was poorly executed. I understand the author was trying to portray the savage side of human nature, but I found the execution to be rough. I think that if the unnecessary shock-value and unprecedented actions were refined to a more subtle effect, I would have enjoyed the book much more. I guess that one could look at it as more of a figurative allegory instead of a literal story, one could appreciate the content much more, but I still am rather disappointed.
The annotating went smoothly, but I found myself eventually running out of novel ideas (no pun intended) to annotate the text with. I personally am not a big fan of annotating as you read because I find it rather disrupting to stop and write ever few seconds. I believe reading is much more enjoyable as an uninterrupted experience. I am starting to see the connections in themes and morals between the two stories.
When Macbeth said, “…blood will have blood” means that blood lust will only result in some other bloody or messy situation, because all things have equal consequences. This is true for Macbeth because he knows he has to kill Duncan’s sons if he wants to continue his prophecy. This also connects to LOF because once they developed the blood lust for the meat and the pig and the chant it started to evolve into a darker blood lust and eventually two of the kids are killed because of this.
ReplyDeleteI didn’t really like this book because I felt like its plot was very boring and non-climatic. I only liked the last two or three pages when Ralph is talking to the navy officer. The writing was very riddle like and had me guessing at some points. I’m still confused about how Piggy got killed and what the creatures in the ocean were.
As for annotating, sometimes I started to lack because I forgot about annotating while I was reading. It was hard for me to do this because I like to do discussions about things in class and say how I feel after its been in my head for a little rather than writing down everything. I also had trouble with the key and I’ll probably have to go back through the book (iPad) and change the colors to what they should be by the 27th.
Macbeth means that the violence he caused will cause more violence in his life as a consequence. He believes that his hands are dirty with sin. Like Macbeth, Jack and Ralph, want to hurt each other and are craving power. However, they don’t have nearly the guilt that Macbeth feels towards his actions. This is most likely because Macbeth respects the King as opposed to Jack and Ralph who have an equal amount hatred for each other.
ReplyDeleteI was extremely glad that the boys were rescued in the end of LOF. However, both Macbeth and LOF frustrate me because the authors write so elaborately. They string out an idea for an entire paragraph when it can be simply stated in one sentence. As if they strive for their readers to be confused and bored!
Annotating has been really hard for me because it slows my pace of reading down so much! However, I feel that I pay better attention when I am questioning the book and making observations. I will definitely use every day from now until the 27th to finish annotating.
As the story progressed, I made more and more connections to Macbeth given that in both books the characters were seeking power and were willing to go to the extreme to find it.
When Macbeth says this, he means that all things will come to justice--similar to the popular phrase, "What goes around, comes around." This rings true for Macbeth in that he is beginning to feel very guilty about the murder he has committed. Also, people are starting to put the pieces together that link him to the murder of King Duncan. In the Lord of the Flies (LOF) I think justice (blood for blood) is what all the boys are yearning for. Jack tries to institute justice by punishing people at his command, but in the end everything was worse because of it. Piggy and Ralph also yearned for justice, but tried to bring it about through peace.
ReplyDeleteI thought that the LOF was a brilliant book that showed the flaws of the human race. I love how in the end he tied it back to the real world as Golding later explained that just as the boys were chasing Ralph, the navy ship was chasing its own enemies.
Annotating went pretty well for me. It was MUCH easier than I expected. As soon as I got started, annotating just felt natural. Although I don't think there was a major change in my understanding of the text.
To be honest I'm not seeing big connections to Macbeth.
Macbeth’s statement “…blood will have blood” suggests that Macbeth will pay for his murder of King Duncan by blood. Macduff is already suspicious of Macbeth and if Macbeth is found guilty then his death will be painful in order to avenge the King. He also literally has blood on his hands and evil intentions running through his heart. This also relates to LOF. After Simon and Piggy’s blood is spilt, Jack and Ralph begin battling it out in order to see whose will be spilt next. They battle it out in order to stay alive.
ReplyDeleteI loved the ending of Lord of the Flies. The boys started as innocent and scared British schoolboys. Their time spent on the island turned them into savages and kids who would do anything to stay alive. This shows that humans, when forced into a dead or alive situation, will turn to the good side or turn evil. I love adventure book even though this book wrapped up quickly, the description and ideas fascinated me. I can’t believe that the boys sacrificed much of the island in the fire and that ended up saving them. That was kind of a cheesy ending. However, some cheesy endings make good books.
Annotating was a new idea for me. I had a hard time at first, but it really helped me relate to the book. Although it helped, I honestly hated the amount of time it took to annotate. Macbeth defiantly relates to LOF, but it takes time to figure out what the characters and their actions have in common. I really liked both of these books and the way they related.
As was already said, the quote "Blood will have blood" means that Macbeth is going to experience what happened to the King through some form of karmic retribution. Whether this means death or just a lack of prosperity I am not sure, but it is sure to come back to Macbeth as this line acts as a "gun in a drawer," Or a foreshadowed act of conflict. This line rings true for Macbeth as it pertains directly to his life and the conflict in it. The line really connected to Lord of the Flies because a cycle develops of wanting for bloodshed and not being satisfied without it. Then when the craving is sated the cycle can't stop.
ReplyDeleteI throughly enjoyed Lord of the Flies and see how the writers life influence the work as it was quite a bleak look at the interactions of mere children. I don't really think that the annotating helped me as I don't look back at reading after I am done reading it. But I understand why we annotated for the purpose of not slacking off while reading.
When Macbeth says, "It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood..," he is worried that in spilling Duncan's blood, his will also be spilled. He knows what he did was wrong and completely unjustified, and thinks his actions will come back to haunt him. This is certainly true, as he will most likely be found guilty and severely punished for his crime. This phrase also connects to Lord of the Flies in the sense that now that Jack has spilled Simon and Piggy's blood, he longs for more. His thirst for killing has spiraled out of control throughout the book. "His obsession started with pigs, and quickly moved on to Simon and Piggy, and now he is desperate to put and end to Ralph. "Blood for blood," in a way, symbolizes justice. Ralph and Piggy longed for justice, yet there was no authority to punish Jack for his evil deeds.
ReplyDeleteI thought that Lord of the Flies was an okay book, I did not love it. I do not think the author was a very good writer, he was much too descriptive for my taste. In my opinion, too much description is boring, and becomes confusing to the reader. The ending was a bit of a let down, it was very abrupt. Annotating was very useful to me, it helped me understand the book better and make many corrections I would not have made otherwise. However, it is a pain, as it slows down my reading, and takes a very long time. I a few connections to Macbeth, such as the desire for power as well as the ambition to do anything to obtain it. Other than that, I did not see any major connections between the two.
I caught so much in pre-reading Act 3 that I hope I remember it! Like that the Weird Sisters act much like the Gray Sisters and Fates in Greek mythology; after all, Hecate’s included. I believe “It will have blood, they say; blood will have blood,” means that he is anticipating justice: Blood he received, blood he will pay. I believe that Jack will somehow get his own justice, perhaps by getting locked up in an asylum. I must say, I was shocked and horrified by the ending. The people on Jack’s tribe became very… crazy. Willing to murder people on a whim. Killing at least 2 people. Both Jack and Macbeth lost themselves into a downward spiral of hubris, and they each at least tried to kill what might’ve been, at one point, their best friends who they respected and trusted. Annotating, well, it definitely, to be perfectly honest, made the book less interesting, and more boring. I guess I can remember most of it better, and could understand the deeper parts when I was looking underneath the surface. I was glad to read Lord of the Flies, and feel I can understand human nature better, like I got a glimpse underneath the surface of civilization.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, this the 3rd time I have typed this because my laptop is failing me. And the 3rd time I was just about ready to post it… I believe that Macbeth means that all actions have consequences, what goes up must come down. Macbeth finally realizes that killing Duncan was a severe mistake, and now he must suffer the consequences. It’s like an epiphany, but no epiphanies are good when you end up dying in them. I personally think that Lady Macbeth should have this epiphany because she is the crazy one, and she is the one who practically convinced Macbeth to murder Duncan. In regards to LOF, I agree with Carl’s interpretation on it. The action was lighting a fire and the consequence, fortunately, was the boys getting rescued. This is sort of a reverse consequence because it could have been disastrous.
ReplyDeleteLOF is an example of literature at its best with many deeper meanings. First, it really demonstrates how savage human beings really are/can be. We will murder, we will destroy we will reside to awful things if we are forced to and if we end up in a wrongful situation. This book makes us question what we would do if we were in that situation. Would we end up trying to survive by whatever means necessary? This is an example of devolution. The ability to rise up and be civil is what makes us human, and if someone takes that away, we are but mere animals trying to survive. But there is always hope that we can rise up from this. Ralph tried to be civil, but there was a weak link (Jack), and it nearly destroyed all hope. This book also demonstrates how strong children can be if they have to. They can be as productive and civil as adults. This is what I mean by deeper meaning.
As for annotations, I disliked them very, very much. To me, books are valuable, and they should not just be written on. When I read a book, I like to take in the book without writing constantly about what I’m thinking. It seems to take away from the joy of reading, if you are forced to write your own thoughts. Also, if I were to re read the book, I would like to re live my past thoughts, and not have them written down for me. I would never, never annotate one of my books on my own without someone telling me to. The only thing I got out of annotating was that it helped me relate to the book a bit. But I do realize I have to annotate a lot more…
I think that we are all pretty much on the same page here. The only way to interpret the "Blood will have blood" line has been said over forty times so I honestly don't feel like I should say it again. This line connects to LOF in the sense that it has just turned into constant bloodshed in these last couple chapters. The only difference is that the savages on the island don't understand that all of this murder is going to come back and bite them in the end.
ReplyDeleteThe end of the book was slightly unsatisfying at first. But after thinking about it a little more I realized how deep it was. It sort of just summarized the entire book. The fact that all humans have this potential evil scares me, but it does not surprise me. Everyone is a little evil at some point in their lives. The only thing that sets the good away from the bad is whether or not we feel guilty about it later. Jack is like Lady Macbeth because neither of them feel anything about recent events.
I don't feel like annotating has helped me very much. All it really did was slow me down and made me not want to read the book because it was too much work. I saw all the connections in Macbeth but I didn't need the annotations to notice them.
I completely agree with Andrea on how she says the meaning of the quote, “It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood...” (Act 3) is the blood Macbeth has literally and figuratively on his hands. Macbeth is referring to all the guilt he has about murdering King Duncan. The blood also symbolizes what it will take for it to come off. Macbeth will have to get off his hands and act normal before anyone becomes suspicious.
ReplyDeleteIt connects to Lord of the Flies with Jack’s tribe killing Simon and Piggy. The tribe didn’t feel guilty at first because once Piggy was killed Jack knew it wasn’t enough and tried to kill Ralph too. Also after they killed Piggy, Ralph heard the tribe yelling and dancing that night during their feast, which means that to them it was a victory. When Jack and his tribe got home the guilt finally came to them and they realized they just lost two people.
Overall, I really enjoyed Lord of the Flies because of the major events that happened. All of them were so unpredictable. How many would have thought that the whole tribe would be at war against Ralph leading up to the rescue. Even though lighting the whole island on fire would have been perceived as a bad thing, it turned out to be a good thing considering that a ship saw their smoke and came to rescue them.
Annotating wasn’t as hard as I thought it would be, after the first 50 pages all it was, was putting your own thoughts in to the book. I am sort of seeing the connections to Macbeth about the betrayal and how Jack betrayed Ralph, but I saw even greater connections to how this book related to World War II. The island served as the world and Jack’s tribe was the Axis powers and Ralph was the Allied powers. Jack served as a dictator similar to Hitler, in his ideas of stealing fire and their attack on Ralph’s shelters. Even though, it might not have seemed like he tortured Piggy, but he did over time. At first Jack broke one lens of Piggy’s specs, and then at the end Jack stole what remained to light the fire, which caused Piggy to basically having no sight. The deaths of Piggy and Simon represented all the Jews that were killed. Samneric’s capture represented the capturing of people in the concentration camps. The guilt of Jack and his tribe represented about how Germany felt about killing and torturing 6 million plus Jews after the war.
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ReplyDeleteWhen Macbeth says that "Blood will have blood", he is saying that he is afraid of what he has brought down upon himself, and begins to believe that his evil actions will have consequences. That since he shed Duncan's blood, his blood will maybe be shed in return, and the thought scares him, as it would to anyone. As for Lord of the Flies, I liked it, I just didn't understand the moral of the story, "how to live when you are stranded on an island with a group of choir boys and other boys"? I know not all novels have morals, but most of the ones we read in school do, and this one seems like it should have had one. I also was slightly disappointed by the ending and I think the best part was when they arrived on the island, although I was really confused. I didn't like annotating, it bothers me how in school we pick apart every aspect and have to comment on every line, character, and theme of the book, I think that authors write books to be read and enjoyed, not interpreted and dissected. The annotating came easy because I just wrote down my thoughts, but I don't understand how it helped us at all.
ReplyDeleteWhen Macbeth says the quote from the question, he is saying that his consiquences will catch up with him later on down the road in his life. The line that Macbeth says connects to LOF in the fact that in the last couple scenes have just been pure chaos. With all the blood and maddness in POF, the boyts really learn that friendship and relationships with the people around you are most important in life. My final impressions of LOF is that the moral of the book is that relationships are put in jeopardy when power comes into view. When mankind is stripped down to the barebones of human nature, we become savages. I think annotating mostly is a downer type of thing. Here i must agree with Clarissa, annotating is one of those things that really distracts you when your in a really good part of the book.While reading i process the way that Macbeeth and LOF connect to each other. but annotating is one of those things where i would read the book through, then go back and annotate the chapters. But after reading LOf and MAcbeth i realize that people become a different person when they are told they could be powerful if something was going to happen.
ReplyDeleteI think “Blood will have blood...” just means that actions have consequences. Tiny things affect many people in many ways. It can also say things like karma and an eye for an eye and things like that. I think this connects to LOF but in a messed up way. The karma here is messed up because Piggy died despite his purity of spirit. It is a melancholy feeling throughout LOF and Macbeth. A cloud of fog is hanging over everyone. Especially in the writing style of LOF is where I saw this. Things were never really written with emotion like they would have been through a character’s eyes. His mood was somber and dreary, in a subtle way. He had a certain feeling about all this that he weaved into the narration. It’s tragic that Macbeth killed Duncan and that Piggy died, because nobody deserves what they got. Macbeth never wanted all this guilt on his shoulders and hadn’t done anything to deserve it. Piggy didn’t deserve to die. He was very respected by Ralph in the end, a trustworthy component to the group. Maybe even considered Ralph’s friend by the end of it all. Through LOF, I saw many references to Lost. The scene at the end reminded me heavily of this, because this always happens when things seem their most hopeless. Just when things couldn’t get any worse, you feel the same relief that Ralph and the rest of the boys did. I think that when you get right down to it, the only thing making me not see many connections to Macbeth is LOF’s setting and all the connections I made to Lost. These override any others. I see one big one at the end now, and it’s that Piggy was Charlie the whole time. In a way, he sacrificed himself to save others. Charlie never did anything wrong to anyone and died as well. Annotating hasn’t really made me understand the text any more than reading it has. But I pay attention to the book either way because it was so compelling at times. Good writing, good story, and something I’ll remember for a while.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Anna's analysis of the quote from Macbeth. I think that he is saying that his death will follow the killing of King Duncan. This I think will definitely ring true for Macbeth because he already has people suspecting him as the prime suspect and others still believing it definitely was not the chamberlains. If this gets out there will be a big uprising against Macbeth as ruler, since the people of the land thought of Duncan as a good king. Plus, the way Macbeth is acting right now, it seems as though he will not have the most loved style of rule. A rebellion of all these people would likely spell Macbeth's downfall, and probably death.
ReplyDeleteThis is similar to The Lord of the Flies in which a non leader deceives everyone to accept him as leader (Jack), but this may have spelled his downfall. The characters at the end probably know that it was the wrong thing to follow Jack, and it is hard to tell whether Jack even made it out of the forest alive. Ralph is like Donalbain and Malcolm, where he has to flee the leadership in order to keep his own life, although he claims leadership at the end.
I think that the Lord of the Flies was dull at parts and exciting at parts, but meaningfull the whole way. It is a really creative way to expose the many flaws that man has, and how we need to mend those flaws to keep society going. I also think it interesting how often colors were used as symbols, at the end of the book especially. Although, I never really got any of the colors, and am still a little bit confused over other parts of the book as well.
To tell the truth, I really think that annotating hurt me more than it helped in the reading of Lord of the Flies. It seemed as though I was always looking for connections throughout the book, and I never really focused on what different parts meant and the real essence of the plot. I just read a section without annotating it, and I felt I got that part better than any other part because I was focused on the plot only and the essence of the book only rather than only the stuff at the surface. All the same I definitely found connections to Macbeth, especially in the blogs when we needed to compare the two. I think that I would have done better with just a blog like this for every chapter rather than do all the annotations to say the truth.
I think that quote by Macbeth relates to karma and he knows he will get punished for what he did. I really don't feel like this relates to LOF because in the end Simon and Piggy died and they had some of the bets ideas. Then Ralph ended up getting hunted when all he tried to do was help. LOF really just bothers me. I feel the author has some truth with the fact that all humans are inherently evil and if put in a situation that strips them of their comforts they will go back to that murdering, savage attitude. And honestly this scares me a ton. I just hope this never actually happens. I also really like annotating. I think it helps me to ask more questions and really understand underlying meaning. It forces me to pay better attention to the book which I need to do more often.
ReplyDeleteWhen Macbeth says that quote, I agree with the others in saying that he knows that the blood will not just end there. Somehow it will make its way back to him and the consequences will not be good. He realizes that this treacherous deed he has committed comes with a price, and he knows that it will not have a good outcome. It is true to his life because he sees his wrong deed and is extremely sorry for it, but he cannot do anything about it. This also connects to Jack and Ralph in Lord of the Flies. In this story, two innocent young boys are killed. Simon and Piggy did not do anything wrong, but they were killed anyway because of the savage tribe that only cared about themselves. This relates to Macbeth because an innocent King who has not done anything wrong is killed by a man who only cares about himself and his future.
ReplyDeleteMy final impressions of LOF was that it was a pretty good book and I liked most of it. I thought that the beginning of the book was great, but as it got closer to the end, it started to not make as much sense, and it took too much time to get to the point. I felt that there were too many wasted pages in the book that could have been used for some more action, or more of the plot. It just seemed to drag on for too long, but overall I liked the book. As for annotating, I think that it is good and bad. The good thing about it was that it made me read much slower so that I could understand what was going on in depth, and be able to write good notes. The bad part was that I was caring too much about writing things down, that I did not get to enjoy the book as much. The main connection to Macbeth that I saw was with Macbeth and Jack. I saw that they both cared about their own well being more than anything else. So much, that they were even prepared to kill people that they know and like. Macbeth had no problem going through his cousin to be king, and Jack had no problem going through two of the boys on the island.
In Lord of the Flies, Jack and Ralph thought similar to Lady Macbeth. They thought similar in the sense of guilt would be taken away in a couple of days and blood would be washed away incredibly easy. When Macbeth said that quote from act 3, what he means was that he himself would carry his guilt and dark secret to his own grave. Anybody who had a cloud that large over your head from killing somebody, let alone your own cousin, wouldn’t be something that would be easily washed for anybody. Well on the island in LOF the boys were fighting for power over all the Guys on the island. When anybody fights for power, greed takes over in the body and shows the real person. Having these two books read at the same time made connections become a lot easier. In regards to annotating, I hated it. Having to ask questions that would usually be answered in a little longer of reading wasn’t too much of a bright side to me. I liked being titillated so writing the questions wasn’t that fun. I would have much rather just read through the book without stopping and just think about parts that confused me about the book, because it was not something that I enjoyed, it wasn’t as good as I would have liked. As I do it more I think that I might do a better job and actually enjoy it more.
ReplyDeleteWhen Macbeth says: “It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood…”, I think he means that his crime will not go unpunished, that eventually he will die a death like King Duncan, possibly as king, depending on if the witches’ prophesy comes true or not…So Macbeth finally realizes that he cannot commit a crime without a negative consequence. This rings true for Macbeth because he is a tragic hero, and the common rule of all tragic heroes is that: they all die eventually because of a mistake or action they took, no matter what. This also applies to Jack and Ralph find themselves in, because between Ralph and Jack, Piggy, Simon, and Samneric are killed so that they can rise to higher power in the tribe, and for one to pass the other, they will have to kill more and more members until they are alone. That is similar to Macbeth, but a little different, Macbeth killed King Duncan for power, but now he will have to kill more and more to cover up the first blood, not to gain more power. In the end, I did not like it when any of the boys died, but it showed a lot of how far a person will really go when a person is desperate, and if their morals are strong enough to support them, or fail them in the end. I believe that this book was too negative and violent to what I usually read, but that it still had good morals, and even if it’s not for pleasure reading/enjoyment, that it’s still a good book to read. Annotating was, and still is, really slow for me, but it allowed me to find the deeper meaning and significance of different phrases and lines, and if it didn’t take so much time, I think that I’d really enjoy doing more of it in the future. I didn’t really have huge connections to Macbeth until the action started to pick up, but now I’m finding some big connections between them.
ReplyDeleteI mostly agree with what has been said about Macbeth and the "blood will have blood..." quote because in general he was a good person, but the witch's prophecy drove him slightly wanky. He therefore gets the idea into his head that he has to keep killing people in order to do what is needed to become and stay a king. This connects with Lord of the Flies, because Jack feels that he has to do whatever is needed to become chief; including murder. My view on the story was that it was so negative I actually dreaded reading further on. There's nothing wrong with a little negativity, but when it's thrust upon you as heavily as it was it's hard to bare.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed annotating, because it helped me concentrate on the story instead of just spacing out during really boring scenes. The process of annotating itself didn't help me with understanding the story, but I feel as though now that I used that method of learning, I'll retain the story longer.
When Macbeth says this I believe he is talking about how to avenge a murder someone will commit a murder. Or he is speaking about how he will have to continue killing people to obtain the throne. So basically I agree with Mariah. This connects to Lord of the Flies because jack is like Macbeth in the way that they both became more and more murderous as they wanted more power. Both Macbeth and Jack were willing to do awful things to get what they want, so this shows they are both very selfish people. I thought that Lord of the Flies had a really disturbing theme, and it made me wonder why William Golding felt this way about humanity.
ReplyDeleteAnnotating was difficult for me because it took me forever to do. But it helped me to understand and connect LOF to Macbeth.