Evil...
After reading the first act of Macbeth as well as the first eight chapters of Golding's Lord of the Flies, what do you see as the role of evil? Where have you seen connections in the emergence of evil in these two works of literature? Can you also draw any parallels to what is going on in our world today? Think deeply here people. Respond and connect with one anothers' ideas.
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ReplyDeleteAfter reading the first act of Macbeth and the first eight chapters of Lord of the Flies it is easier to see this years them challenging the system. In these two novels the system is not just challenged by acts of rebellion but also by acts of evil. In both novels there is a character that encourages these evil acts. In Lord of the Flies it is Jack who enjoys and encourages the killing of pigs and he is willing to destroy the one thing that will get them off the island, the fire, to become chief and gain power over the boys. In Macbeth, Lady Macbeth is willing to kill her own king so that she and her husband may gain more power. Through these two novels a pattern can be found that those willing to comet evil acts and challenge the system are those who do it for there own gain of power. In the world today, unfortunately, it is the same. One is willing to break a law to gain money or make themselves above others.
ReplyDeleteMacbeth and Lord of the Flies both deal with aspects of evil that affect the characters and there decisions. Macbeth struggles with his own conscious on whether or not to kill King Duncan. However, it takes a trigger to set off such a different personality. I believe the driving force behind Macbeth’s motives is his own wife. Lady Macbeth pushes him to murder Duncan and she acts like Macbeth’s dark side. In Lord of the Flies, the boys lack a sufficient system of “ government.” Without rules to dictate there behavior, there is no limit the what the boys can do. Jack’s less civilized state of mind seizes the opportunity and takes over not only Jack, but the gullible boys also.
ReplyDeleteBoth pieces of literature have evil that is derived from psychological issues. Macbeth thinks he needs to kill the king in order to fulfill his destiny. The boys are tormented by an imaginary beast that is really the result of fear. By jumping to conclusions and loosing there common sense, our characters become there own villains.
Evil is very prevalent in both Lord of the Flies and Macbeth. The obvious evil is that killing is very much a part of both plots. Macbeth is struggling over whether to kill the king to fulfill the prophecy from the witches or not. Plus, he was a fierce soldier and killed MacDonwald savagely. In Lord of the Flies, Jack is entirely focused on hunting, and killing pigs, instead of shelter or a fire, or anything else that could possibly help them survive. Today murder is still present. Especially relating to 9-11, because the terrorists killed plenty of innocent people(like the innocent king and the innocent pigs) just for their own selfish desires(like Macbeth becoming king, or the boys wanting food.) I also see that contention and fighting can be a sign of evil. Even among the boys on the island, arguments have already arisen, and it is like it is impossible to have peace. This relates to war in the world today.
ReplyDeleteI think that the force of evil is a very prominent force in both Macbeth and Lord of the Flies. In Macbeth, the evil idea of killing the king is thought of by Macbeth himself. In Lord of the Flies Jack let the fire die out in order to hunt and gain the love of the boys. In both the books I see the role of evil as being greed. In both of the stories all seemingly bad decisions are made because someone wants something for themselves. In Macbeth he just wants all the power to himself, so he must commit the worst act of betrayal and kill his king. In Lord of the Flies jack wants to be in charge so he hunts for the pigs to get food but in turn he lets the so he hunts for the pigs to get food but in turn he lets the fire die out. This can be related to the greed that many big businesses have so they takeover small businesses just to get more of what they already have.
ReplyDeleteI defiantly agree with Kimberly. I think Jack is evil and conniving. He will do whatever it takes to become the leader. I think Jack had gone crazy Just like Lady Macbeth. Jack is so wild and kills pigs like they are flies. He stuck the pigs head on a stick like it was a trophy! Lady Macbeth is the same way. When the witches game Macbeth his prophases they never told him he had to kill the king, Lady Macbeth just jumped to that conclusion. They are both willing to sabotage the people they were once loyal to, to get what they want. This defiantly applies to life today. Like Whitney said just think abut all the terrorist attacks and plots. They are rebeling towards a government (just like Jack) and are willing to hurt innocent people to get what they want. I think that none of this has to be this way. In Macbeth, Lord of the Flies, and in real life everyone just need to take a step back and actually think about what is going on before they go crazy and become evil.
ReplyDeleteSo far the first act of Macbeth and the first 8 chapters of Lord of the Flies portrays traits of evil in the characters. Macbeth is dealing with the anxiety to kill Duncan so that he could become king, his wife is along side him pushing him harder and harder until he ends up with no choice but to kill his beloved king. In lord of the Flies they boys system of government is starting to fall apart because some of them are deciding to go their own ways and ignore their made laws and rules. In our world these two stories connect dealing with people who have no respect of higher authority and will go out of their way to get what they want or what they want to do even if it includes hurting or even killing innocent people who without a doubt do not deserve the suffering
ReplyDeleteThe aspect of evil I see in both Macbeth and Lord of the Flies deal with power. In Macbeth, Lady Macbeth is willing to commit a treacherous murder in order for her husband to become king. In Lord of the Flies, Jack would rather put the boys’ survival on the line in order to become chief over the boys. He enjoys the act of killing, as we see through the pigs, and we see how much the island has shaped the evil in Jack.
ReplyDeleteAs I said before, the connection between these two works is that the evil is brought out by the want of power. The characters’ greed trumps all other morals they might have, and slowly those morals will fade.
Evil today is especially prevalent because the goal in our society is to get to the top. I think that a majority of people today are just as crazy as Lady Macbeth or as savage as Jack in terms of wanting to be the one in charge and “taking care of” anyone who might get in their way.
Evil is a very prevalent subject in both Lord of the Flies and Macbeth. In Lord of the Flies, Jack is obviously showing key signs of evil, his love for brutal killing, desperate lunges for power, manipulative, and lack of regard to others feelings are seen most frequently. Meanwhile Macbeth is struggling over whether to kill Duncan or not. This makes him seem more human, even though, as Whitney said, he’s just bestially slain MacDonaldwald. Both of these characters are perfectly willing to go against their leaders to maintain their sense of authority (Macbeth planning to kill Duncan and Jack leaving Ralph and recruiting as many “biguns” as possible). Like Rachel said, this relates a lot to big businesses where people try so hard for promotions. Some are even willing to sabotage the other’s chances at the job. I think this also parallels to survival of the fittest. Cruel people like Jack and Macbeth are the sort who would believe in this idea and would do anything to get to the top. This means that in a broad sense, the idea relates to popularity and even things in everyday life.
ReplyDeleteAlso, did anyone notice how both of them put a head on a sort of spear?
After reading chapters one to eight in Lord of the Flies and act one of Macbeth I can say that I agree with Abby in believing power brings out the evil in characters. We saw that with how Jack responded to Ralph’s being in charge and through how Lady Macbeth acted when the opportunity to gain social standing presented itself. Both stories also are influenced by insanity. In Macbeth it is shown by the numerous quotes by Lady Macbeth and in Lord of The Flies it is shown through Simon’s crazy behavior and personification of a dead animals head. Yet this evil isn’t as connected to the characters as it is to their surroundings. Were I on an island for months at a time with no outside contact I would get a bit crazy too. I don’t really know how to connect any of the characters evil actions in either story to real life. I haven’t really seen anything yet far that truly constitutes evil. Or maybe I have but living in a world like ours numbed me to the evils around myself. It sounds cliche but with things like 9/11 and school shootings in the media seeing a small amount of evil daily is routine.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Abby when she said, “The characters’ greed trumps all other morals they might have, and slowly those morals will fade.” The evil in these two books and in life is inspired by greed and hatred. The insane lust these people have for killing or something else immoral will cause their morals to fade and eventually the wrong action becomes right. This can connect in reality because there are people who become mentally unstable because of how they have to live. And then the way they live becomes normal or right and it is not immoral to them at all. Lady Macbeth and Jack become partially insane for blood because they think that it is right. This lust has become a part of them and will not ever be changed. Jack almost kills one of the boys for meat and I think one of the boys will eventually become hunted. And Lady Macbeth has no hesitation at the murder of King Duncan. This greed and evil will destroy them in the end.
ReplyDeleteIn both Macbeth and Lord of The Flies there is evil. The embodiment of evil in Lord of The Flies is the lord of the flies, a figure Simon sees in his little shrub cavern that he sleeps in. At the end of chapter eight you read about Simon “talking” to the lord of the flies, this is when I thought that the kids are slowly going crazy on the island. In Macbeth, the embodiment of evil could be either Lady Macbeth or the witches because the both are evil and seem to want so evil to happen. Lady Macbeth wants Macbeth to kill people to get the crown, and the witches talked about how one witch tortured a sailor whose wife did not give her chestnuts. In addition, the fact that evil is in both books proves that even today, or in the 1940’s, evil is there. It was there in the beginning and it will be here in the end. It’s never gone no matter how you try it can only be relocated. It is just part of human nature
ReplyDeleteLOF and Macbeth are both creeping closer to the climax and we are staring to see mental strains in both stories. In Macbeth the most obvious evil is Lady Macbeth ans her insane want for ruler-ship for Cumberland. She will stop at nothing to get what she wants and I think that that will be her downfall. A more subtle but equally present evil is Macbeth's ambition. He is so determined to kill the King Duncan and become King that he only stops to think about what he is doing when he is alone and frightened. I agree with Abby as well. Once the idea of power is in the mind set of Macbeth he feels he must act upon it. This applies to LOF as well because in my mind it was only a matter of time before Jack overthrow Ralph whether it was killing him or, as happened, leaving to create his own clan. Another the big evil I saw in LOF was lack of proper routine. They seem to do whatever they want when they feels like it and it should be Ralph's responsibility to create routine but I don't think he knows how. One question I hope someone will answer was what or who was Simon talking to. I know it was the Lord of the Flies but was it the pig head or what? I just need some clarification please!
ReplyDeleteIn Lord of the Flies and Macbeth evil comes out in the roles of greed and fear. Everyone wants power. But what these books are showing us is how far people will go to get that power. In Macbeth, Lady Macbeth "knows" that they have to kill the king and she doesn't care about any of the possible consequences. They just know that they want that social power. In LOF, Jack hates the idea of Ralph being chief. He's hated it since the beginning but he is just now starting to do something about it. The savagery in his mind has caused him to go rogue and he has stopped caring for people altogether. The greed in people can cause fear in others. This fear leads people to do crazy/evil things (or in Simon's case, just going crazy). I agree with Logan in the sense that this world is used to evil. It happens so often in wars over land/power and when people just stop caring about others and only for themselves.
ReplyDeleteEvil is a common theme throughout both of the novels we are reading currently. In Lord of the Flies there are many things that could be considered evil, one of the themes being the "beast". All of the boys believe that it will attack them in the night. Another "evil" thing could be Jack. His constant need to be in control and lack of communication skills drives him to start his own group which causes problems involving everyone. In Macbeth the main evil theme would be Lady Macbeth and Macbeth's plan to kill King Duncan. Other forms of evil in Macbeth could be the witches. Always predicting the future and punishing others with their weird spells. Unfortunately evil is everywhere today. If someone can do something that is going to benefit them in any way, most of the time they don't care who they hurt in the process.
ReplyDeleteI think that in both Macbeth and Lord of the Flies power and greed are the main driving forces of evil. In Macbeth, before he was Thane of Cawdor, Macbeth was a loyal subject to the king. Then, when he earned the title of Thane of Cawdor and Glamis, he craved even more power. Lady Macbeth did too, and she would not let King Duncan, who they were so loyal to earlier, stand in their way.
ReplyDeleteIn Lord of the Flies, I think Jack lusts for power so much that he is willing to split away from the main group of boys. i believe that eventually he will try to kill Ralph, blame it on the "beast", and assume the role of chief. Lady Macbeth's and Jack's greed and lust for power drive them to do horrible things to get it. Like what Lord Acton said,"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Like Abby and Logan, I think that greed and power brings out the most evil in people, in LOF and Macbeth, specifically Jack, Lady Macbeth, and the witches. In each, death and murder is the most prevalent evil. In Macbeth, Lady Macbeth is the evil one who is pushing Macbeth to commit evil deeds, so that she can have power when he becomes king. The witches are playing with people's futures and fate as if it is all a game. Their activities gave Macbeth the idea that he had to kill the king in the first place. Then in Lord of the Flies, Jack is the personification of evil. The brutal killing of the pigs and his disregard of any sensible survival techniques was all for power and his hope of being the chief. Each character's need for power in both stories bring out their evil sides. Much like in the stories, evil caused by a desire for power is EVERYWHERE, like Whitney said. A lot of people are power-obsessed, work-oriented, and narcissistic. Usually those people just stomp on whoever they need to, although they should be helping those beneath them.
ReplyDeleteIn both Lord of the Flies and Macbeth Act1 there are some apparent evils. In Lord of the Flies I believe Jack is becoming evil and possibly insane because of the Lord of the Flies and he might result to harming the other boys. In Macbeth the clearly evil person is Lady Macbeth because she is willing to do anything in order to get what she wants. She is willing to murder a good person in order to give her husband the title of King. Both evils emerged in the same way which I believe is a severe want of the characters. Greed can make even the nicest of people evil. In the world there are a few parallels I see a similarity between Lady Macbeth and Hitler because they both did not seem to have a conscience or soul and they both were obviously evil. In both Lord of the Flies and Macbeth there is evil which I believe as we read on will only get worse.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jenna. I think that greed and power bring out the true evil in people. In LOF Jack and in Macbeth Lady Macbeth. I think that Jack is becoming very evil and that could lead to the destrution of others but also himself. I see a similarity between Lady Macbeth and Jack. They both are willing to kill to climb higher on the social ladder. Lady Macbeth is pushing Macbeth to kill the king so she can be more powerful herself. Jack wants to be the chief and he is making the boys fear him so he can have power. Each of these character's want power which brings out their evil side. The desire for power is everywhere just like Jenna said. People who are despreate for power will sometimes stop at nothing to get it.
ReplyDeleteIn both Lord of the Flies and Macbeth the evil in certain characters is showing its face and even evil because of conflict. In Macbeth evil is definitely Lady Macbeth and her vigor for Macbeth to reach the throne, she has no forethought or conscience of her deeds. In Lord of the Flies it is Jack and the relationship between him and Ralph. Jack is too focused on the lust for power to see the importance of all the boys sticking up for each other. But the bad relationship between Ralph and Jack is also a form of evil because they are continuing to challenge each other and try to up each other and its doing nothing but dividing the group. Then in Macbeth lady Macbeth is the obvious evil and she is the backbone of this plot to murder king Duncan. Without her Macbeth might find other ways to fulfill his prophecy or choose to think nothing of it. Both of these evils are results of people who will do everything necessary to grasp power and nothing can stop them. This is very present in our world unfortunately with larger nations showing their superiority by moving military into a smaller more helpless nation and not giving up.
ReplyDeleteevil is definitely an underlying theme in Macbeth as well as in LOF. In Lord of the flies the evil is the boys minds. Each of them have their own thoughts and greed -however only Jack seems to really be listening to this evil and adhering to it. Jack, like Lady Macbeth, wants power and authority and to be on top. However, Ralph and Macbeth seem to understand what's right and wrong. They know what they want- to be King or to just have fun, but they realize that there's other things that may have to come first or reasons why what they want may not be right on a bigger scale. This evil shows up today in dictators. Dictators just want the power and want things done their way, rather than what's right and just and best for the people. The true evil in all this is selfishness. Everyone has selfish ideas -but how do we choose to adhere to it or put others first?
ReplyDeleteThere can be very different roles of evil. There is Jack who wants badly to be a chief and tries to win over the boys by being blood-thirsty and there is Lady Macbeth who wants power and will kill for it. A role of evil I believe is someone who will cause harm to someone or something else for their own personal gain. Jack killed a pig and hurt Ralph by taking away many of the older boys for his own gain of becoming a leader. Lady Macbeth provokes Macbeth by telling him he is a coward to get him to kill King Duncan. She did this for her own personal gain of becoming queen. Jack and Lady Macbeth are alike because they will kill for power. Jack killed the pig and Lady Macbeth is convincing Macbeth to kill King Duncan. The two pieces of literature have similarities like Jack and Lady Macbeth using others for themselves and Jack hangs a pig’s head on a stake and Macbeth hangs Macdonwald’s head on a stake. I believe that all these characters did what they did for power which is easily found in the world as well. The emergence of evil is in the want of power because then there is nothing that person won’t do to gain that power. Afghanistan is struggling for power over the United States and many of the captured soldiers are killed because it shows power. That is what the head on the stake meant. It was meant to be a gift for the Beast but really the head symbolizes power. It would also warn the Beast that the groups of kids are not powerless and that is what will happen to the Beast if it tries to hurt them. Macbeth showed power when he hung Macdonwald’s head on a stake because he had been a traitor.
ReplyDeleteEvil is surfacing in these two pieces of literature now, and it is brought about for the same reasons. As many other people have already said, Jack feels like the main source of evil on the island. He seems to be loosing any sanity he had to the idea of power and control. It is because of this insanity that I agree with Jack B, I also think that he may even try to kill Ralph to assume the chief position. His desperation for power is pushing him to take even more drastic measures, as is similar to Lady Macbeth. She is at the point where her quest for power and social status has brought her willingness to murder. She is so blinded by her lust for these ideas that she is looking past the possibility of being caught or any repercussions of murdering the king, and focusing solely on what her ideal future holds for her. In both circumstances of Macbeth and Lord of the Flies this evil is brought out of these characters through their desire of power and superiority.
ReplyDeleteIn Macbeth and Lord of the Flies, the evil in characters is starting to show. Macbeth and Lady Macbeth share their evil intentions of murder even though murder is one of a few possible options. Lady Macbeth demonstrates that she will do anything to get the throne; even if it means betraying the loyalty their family has given the King. Jack and Ralph also show their evil side. Ralph understands the importance and gravity of the situation like Macbeth. They both know the line between the time to have fun, what they need, and what they want. Jack is starting to defy the rules and question Ralph’s leadership. Their relationship draws a thin line between what’s right and wrong. The evil lurking underneath Jack and Lady Macbeth will start to become prominent when they are challenged. I wonder how they will respond. The relationships are falling apart and that relates to our wars today. Once something is pushed to the limit or a line is crossed it literally becomes a fight for their life.
ReplyDeleteEvil is a very obvious force in both the first act in Macbeth and the first eight chapters of Lord of the Flies. Evil, specific to these two pieces, would be Lady Macbeth in Macbeth, and Jack, the hunters and presumably, the Lord of the Flies sow’s head. I would describe all of these people as evil because they all are trying to convince a character to do something against their will. This could be the sow’s head convincing Simon to go back to the group will he is transfixed at looking at the rotting head. An evil can also be the main character itself. In Macbeth, Macbeth’s own ambition in becoming king of Scotland is causing him to perform horrible actions. As many people have said, the main source of the evil is greed. Without this drive, Jack would not be competing for power, Macbeth would not care about being king, and the boys on the island would not be discriminating against each other to build themselves up. In the real world, this is existent as, in the Industrial Revolution; smaller companies would be completely taken out of business by the large corporations’ lust for wealth and power. However without all of the evil in stories and in real life, stories would not have a plot and no would really have to work hard against an opposition to achieve a goal.
ReplyDeleteAs many other students have stated, I believe ‘evil’ comes with craving power. In Macbeth, Lady Macbeth becomes infested with cruelty to kill the King. In LOF, Jack is irate that Ralph’s plans and ideas have to come before his. He wants everyone to enjoy his passion of hunting and listen to his thoughts. Jack can’t handle, not being the one in power, so he leaves and goes off by himself. I see aggression and urge in both of these characters. Jack takes out his anger on hunting pigs and Lady Macbeth plots a murder plan! In both cases, they are striving to come out on top. People in the real word can be just as conniving. My first thought, like Logan, were the attacks on 9/11, when terrorists simply went insane and were willing to take thousands of lives. Situations like this happen all the time from the big events to the minute occurrences between young boys on an island grasping for power. ☺
ReplyDeleteIn both the Lord of the Flies and Macbeth, evil is seen where you least expect it. In the Lord of the Flies, Jack becomes the evil rebellion, but in the beginning of the book, he seems just like an average school boy. In Macbeth, Lady Macbeth seems to just be an average woman, but ends up being a murderer when she can see what the gain will be for herself and her husband. Both works struggle with the question of "What is evil?" and "Why are people evil?". I think these questions are still prevailing today.
ReplyDeleteI think that in LOF jack willing to do anything as long as he becomes the leader. In Macbeth, Lady Macbeth brings out Macbeth's evil side. While inquiring the thought to kill duncan, Mabeth is pressured by his wife into strongly considering killing the king. But going back to Lord of the Flies, Jack is as savage killer. HE kills pigs as if they arent any living thing at all. he stucka pigs head on a stick as if he was bragging that he killed the pig. In both books, its almost as if the feelings of evil were forced upon the charaters because of what events are happening in the book and things that affect them emotionally. that is what i think is the biggest connection between the two books. I think that relating these acts of evil to our world today i have to hook up these people and communism because they are both greedy, and both want to be the ruler of a certain land just like the leaders of communist countries in our world today. These people are driven by power. They are willing to do anything to have this power and will also do anything to gain more power.
ReplyDeleteEvil plays a huge part in the development of these plots. In Macbeth, the devil is in the details. Lady Macbeth is throwing herself at the murder of Duncan and telling spirits to fill her with cruelty. Macbeth is going mad contemplating his choices. Should I kill Duncan? Will people find out it was me? Is this even the right thing to do? In Lord of the Flies the evil emerges slower. As the boys begin to argue among themselves the ever more prominent beast creeps into their conversations. Their camp is soon plagued with nightmares. As soon as the first sighting of the beast happens they send a search party and Ralph and Jack find a breathing mass on the top of the mountain. As sanity slips away the Lord of the Flies assures Simon that there is no escape. They are doomed to die a death at the hands of the evil beast. Today the word evil holds many definitions. Some people view the terrorists of today evil. Other children say the monsters under their bed are evil. All of these fears are primal and instinctual. We view these fears as a threat that is scary. Just like in both Macbeth and Lord of the Flies, fear of the unknown and evil.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Whitney's comment that the evil that is present in both Lord of the flies and Macbeth is murder. In Macbeth, Macbeth brutally murdered on the battle field and is now contemplating weather or not to kill Duncan. In LOF Jack and the boys are becoming more and more savage by having an obsession with killing the pigs and the beast. On page 114 and 115 the hunter's play a "game" where Robert was the pig and the hunters were hunting him. At first it was just a game but then the boys started to really hurt him. Even today evil is everywhere. Theft and even murder are still here today. One example is 9/11. It was a terrible act and thousands of innocent people were murdered in the process.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading LOF chapters 7-8 and act one of Macbeth,I agree with the point that Logan and Abby stated, that power brings out the evil beast in human nature. The other catalyst that starts the works of evil are murder and killing. In Lord of the flies, Jack starts as the average school boy, as Chris has pointed out. As the pages fly by the projection of Jacks downfall as an innocent child, can be potrayed as his lust for blood and the desire to be chief of the hunters. In Macbeth, lady Macbeth after a thought that her husband was to be king, got power hungry and persuded Macbeth to kill Duncan. Murder is a resemblance of evil in both books because they must achieve death of another living creature before the evil settles inside. The literature in both pieces of written work does link to the world today, and what is happening. The terrorists in the middle east have a problem with the people in power, as it is with Jack to Ralph and Lady Macbeth to Duncan. They do not like them if it is the way they govern (Ralph) or the fact that who they want in control is not ( Lady Macbeth wanting Macbeth to be king). In the two novels and in real life, plots to kill happen, which is very saddening, bringing out bad human nature.
ReplyDeleteIn the first 8 chapters The Lord of the Flies and The first act in Shakespeare's Macbeth, there are definite signs of evil. In The Lord of the flies, some facts are just now setting in to many of the boys such as the fact that they need to be rescued somehow if they ever want to survive. I think that this new realization is causing their imaginations to start to wander, and they are starting to convince eachother that this "monster" is something physical, when in my opinion is just the boy's fears and doubts manifesting itself. In Macbeth, there is a certain evil between Lady Macbeth, her husband, and Duncan. The fact that either Macbeth or Lady Macbeth are even willing to commit to the murder of Duncan seems very evil to me, but the fact that the only real motive for either of them to commit this is pure ambition, is the main reason to call this "evil".
ReplyDeleteIn both the Lord of The Flies and Macbeth, there are definite evils. I believe that the idea of power itself has everything to do with the evils in these works. In the start of Macbeth, the evil was absent from Macbeth, but with the idea of power from being the king, the idea changes him. In Lord of the Flies, Jack has issues with wanting to be the leader from the very beginning of the book. After he is given control of "the hunters", he also changes into something more savage than Macbeth is. When the characters are given the chance to advance, they become more evil. Macbeth calls it ambition but it also has to do with pride. He has to become king or else he would have failed doing what the witches predicted. Jack has to kill a pig and the beast to prove he should be the leader of the tribe. This evilness comes from the pride of being "the best" and it goes for both the selections.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading act one of Macbeth and chapters 1-8 of Lord of the Flies, I would have to say that nighttime plays the role of evil, because the night brings the worst out of people in both stories. Even in the daytime a little bit of their true side shows and that could be considered part of the "shadows" because that's only a little taste of night inside the day. In today's popular culture almost all of the bad things in stories or movies happen at night because that's when all of the evil comes out of people and on the streets.
ReplyDeleteEvil is a large part of both stories we are reading. In LOF, evil is found in the primitive savagery that the boys are starting to display. In the scene after the boar hunt, the boys transition into a maddened state, in which they have no respect or consideration for even a human life. One can argue that this, malicious intent with no regards for other emotions or feelings, is the root of all evil. In Macbeth, Lady Macbeth displays two main types of evil. The first one is obvious: the evil spirits. These are pretty much the definition of evil, but are strangely must less frightening than the other evil Lady Macbeth possesses, malicious intent for personal gain. She is willing to kill a loving, kind man that has been very good to her and her husband, all for her personal gain. This, to me, is pure evil.
ReplyDeleteIn my recent reading of the twonovel, I speak for myself that some sections of the books have not only suprised me, but scared me just as well. I can see evil in LOF as an abundance between the older boys. Simon has been going crazy, talking to a dead pig’s head and seperating himself from the others. The pig head, or the Lord of the Flies, has seemed to convince Simon that it is the beast and it will get to every boy on the island very soon. Jack seems rebellious to Ralph, running off and forming his own ttribe, and later beating Simon to death. Jack is power-hungary and selfish, which I can see leading to his ultamate demise.
ReplyDeleteMacbeth is as creepy as LOF. Lady macbeth is full of evil, thriving to kill Duncan for the sake of her husband’s power. She can’t accept the gifts Duncan has blessed her and her spouse with by plotting out his murder. But there is more, she even begged the evil-ridden spirits to give her some of her own evil, so she can commit the crime if Macbeth does not.
Evil in today’s world is a little more advanced, with things like crime, rebellious nations and politics. Terrorist plots, gangs, and downfall in our economy hurt us in our everyday lives just as much as they hurt the characters in our books. I can’t say they are equally as bad, but they cause conflict that make life interesting.
I still am confused about why Simon was killed. He wasn’t a beast or a threat to Jack, but they murdered him all the same.
The characters in Macbeth and Lord of the Flies both have traits of evil in the characters, and the evil has to do with killing. Macbeth is thinking of killing the king just so that he can have power, and all Jack can think about is killing pigs for the glory of having power over everyone else. I agree with Abby in that the evil has to do with the want of power, and it can still be seen in our society today, just not as extreme. Girls will do crazy and mean things if they are jealous of someone else, or to get a boy. I noticed though that the evil seems to take over everyone’s mind until it is all that they can think about. All Jack ever talks about is killing pigs, and the only thing Macbeth has really been about is Macbeth trying to decide if he should kill the king or not. I also agree with Vivian in that I am sure that these books will get more evil once the characters start becoming challenged and threatened. In Lord of the Flies most of what the boys say and think is mean, but it could possibly turn evil if they need it to. Carl, I think that Simon was killed not only because of the evil with the boys, but because of their want for it. I think that once you feel evil it can kind of be overpowering, and some boys, like Jack, want it.
ReplyDeleteFrom both works of literature there is definitely evil present. In Macbeth it is Lady Macbeth who displays most evil and in Lord of the Files it’s Jack who provokes most evil. Lady Macbeth is encouraging Macbeth to kill King Duncan. Jack is encouraging the killing of the pigs, he is also extremely rude and men to the other boys on the island. The two novels show many similarities in the way they portray evil. Macbeth and Lord of the Flies display anger through both words and actions. This defiantly draws parallels to our world today. Many people hurt others to get what will help them in the short run. Even as kids in grade school this is displayed. It also relates back to history class and how the large business took over the smaller ones, and Social Darwinism.
ReplyDeleteIn the first eight chapters of Lord of the Flies and in the first act of Macbeth, I see the emergence of evil in the rebellious attitudes of some of the characters in the two books. It is the emergence of two particular characters, Jack and Lady Macbeth that embrace this rebellious attitudes and actions that appear in the two books. In the Lord of the Flies, Jack decides to separate himself from the rest of the clan and form his own clan. Jack is seen as evil to Ralph and most of his clan, but to Jack and the hunters, Ralph and Piggy are the evil people because they are leading that clan in the wrong direction. This is an interesting conflict, and we will have to see if some of Ralph’s clan will go and join Jack or if they will stay with their proven leader, Ralph. There is also the mention of a “Lord of the Flies”, and he is the “Beast” on top of the mountain. He is seen as evil for leading Simon to believe that he is useless and unnecessary. In Macbeth, Lady Macbeth is seen as evil for wanting to be able to kill the king. This plot could easily put her and her husband, Macbeth, in serious trouble. She just wants to fulfill the prophecy that the witches had said. Macbeth can also be seen as evil in this because he is considering killing the king to fulfill the prophecy. He is not doing this for the good of the country, in which case this would be considered as a good act, but this is for pure self interest only, so it is very bad. Today, many people are out for their own self interest, and will step on anyone and do anything to get where they want and to get what they want. It doesn’t matter, it is all about them. There are also people who think that they need to be in charge in order for things to run smoothly. Usually, they do more harm to those who follow them, but they don’t care, their way is the best way.
ReplyDeleteI agree with a lot of what Whitney A. said. Macbeth is evil because he is trying to kill the innocent King Duncan and the boys on the island are evil because they are obsessed with blood and killing pigs (for now—I think they will start killing each other if they become any more insane and blood thirsty), especially Jack. They only kill for their own selfish reasons, like Whitney said—to gain glory or, for the boys on the island, to let out their fear and anger at their situation. I think Lady Macbeth might be more evil than Macbeth is, though. Without her, I don’t think Macbeth would kill Duncan. At the end of Act 1 Macbeth realizes that the king is good to his people and Macbeth has no reason to kill him other than personal greed, but Lady Macbeth convinces him to follow through with the plan by attacking him with her words. I also like the way Whitney related the evil in our books to 9/11, which was pure evil. I don’t agree, however, that the terrorists attacked on 9/11 for their own selfish gain. I think that their beliefs in God were so twisted that they convinced themselves they would be sacrificing their lives to better the world by getting rid of Americans, who live in the “Devil Nation”. Like a lot of people, I agree that power brings out the evil in people. I know sometimes I have acted poorly because I wanted something for myself. Logan said that, “…With things like 9/11 and school shootings in the media seeing a small amount of evil daily is routine.” Unfortunately, he is right that we have become accustomed to evil, but even more so than he explained. In Lord of the Flies, the older boys constantly harass and abuse the younger boys, and refuse to help them when they clearly need it. This happens every day at school, where people who think they are “cooler” or “better” than everyone else use it as an excuse to treat them like dirt, but we don’t notice these little evils anymore because we have become so accustomed to them.
ReplyDeleteIn both works, the role of evil seems to be the underlying truth that something must be done, and others end up doing it. In Macbeth, he wants to kill the king, but his wife will gladly step in his place. In Lord Of the Flies, its going up against the "beast", but no one know how and Simon is being talked to be the Lord Of The Flies and hes telling Simon what to do. Some connections are between Ralph and Macbeth, like Savannah said, they know whats right and whats wrong, but don't know how to accomplish either. Another is the subtle character that is whispering in the ears of others. Lady Macbeth, the Witches, and Lord of The Flies are all the same underlying voice of destruction. There are , in my mind, no threats in the world that need to be vanquished or sought out to be found.
ReplyDeleteWhile reading Macbeth and Lord of the Flies the same type of evil is encountered. This type of evil is the evil hunger for power. This version of evil can turn a decent man into a savage beast. The very idea of being king sends Macbeth and his wife into devious thoughts of murder, while the power hunger of controlling the island and slaying the beast overcomes the group of deserters led by Jack. In Lord of the Flies the evil is the power craze of the children and the actual voice of the flies. Macbeth's form of evil is the power hunger that consumes Macbeth and Lady Macbeth. Some connections between the evil power craze of the boys and Macbeth to modern day is the craze of African countries constantly at war trying to get more land and wealth.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rachel, evil is greed. In Macbeth the evil is the thought of killing the King, Lady Macbeth and Macbeth want to kill the king in order to get a higher power, they are being greedy and are being evil in their attempt to get what they want. In Lord of The Flies the beast and Jack are evil. The beast is supposed to be evil. But whether or not Jack is evil is up for the readers interpretation, I think he is. Again this evil i portrayed as greed. Jack wants so badly to be the leader and he doesn't realize how evil and conniving he is being. Both of these characters are being blinded by their want for power and have lost all of their values, and in their place greed and evil are left.
ReplyDeleteEvil appears to be in both Lord of the Flies and Macbeth, one form of evil is murder. In Macbeth, Macbeth plans to kill the king, for his own selfish purpose; he wants to take throne and become king of Scotland. Lord of the Flies displays evil as well. All jack wants to do is hunt and kill pigs. Getting rescued or what is in everyone else’s best interest isn’t his first priority. This is evil and selfish because although he gained the love of the boys, he let the fire die, which was their only chance at being rescued. All Jack wants is to be a leader, so he will be evil and selfish to claw his way up. Both stories show evil to gain power, which I very relevant to today’s society. Many people will go against what their moral is to gain control or fame. They will start to act like someone they are not to be powerful and successful. Which, in the end, doesn’t always bring them happiness.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the first eight chapters of “Lord of the Flies” by William Golding and the first act of “Macbeth” by William Shakespeare I have noticed a lot of connections between the two novels. I realize that in both books someone wants the highest position of power even if it means leaving the collective group that is currently keeping you safe and well taken care of or, forcing your spouse to commit a crime that will forever haunt their soul. I believe that the characters that feel this way assume that by being in a position of power is the only way they can truly be happy and satisfied with life. In Shakespeare’s “Macbeth”, Lady Macbeth yearns to be queen so much that she is willing to force her husband to kill King Duncan. Lady Macbeth strives for a way to feel happy and she believes that this is the only way to accomplish this task. In Golding’s “Lord of the Flies”, Jack wants to be the chief. He believes that his ways will allow the boys to survive better than Ralph’s ways. Although the two boys have completely different ideas of what is most crucial they somehow cannot put a good light to what the other wants to achieve. I see the idea of doing whatever it takes to obtain a position of power as the evil so far in the two books.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Logan in saying that on a daily basis we see some form of evil whether it be the war in Iraq, or the influences that drugs have on children, or the 9/11 attack. Every day we see evil and it can be as minor as seeing your brothers punch each other in the arm or it can be major like the Columbine shooting. I believe that evil is part of our lives today and there is nothing that we can do to completely be rid of it.
I agree with Megan M. She really hit every spot of similarity these books have. I especially agree with how the boys being obssessed with killing pigs relates to Lady Macbeth and Macbeth wanting to kill King Duncan. It shows in both books how the person or animal being killed has done nothing to deserve it. The people attacking them though, believe they have the right to kill them though. In my mind, anyone who thinks they have the superiority and right to kill anyone else is evil. I'm sure that will continue to be a theme through the rest of both these books.
ReplyDeleteEvil has played a large part in the plot twists of these books. In Lord of the Flies, Jack represents evil. He has turned to his natural personality and has unleashed his inner savagery. Evil has been steadily building in Jack throughout the book, and after weeks of no civilization, he has no desire to pretend to be civilized any longer. He has quickly become obsessed with killing pigs, which is necessary for the boys' survival, but he has taken hunting to the extreme. He enjoys killing, and he takes a sadistic delight in tormenting Piggy. His anger towards Ralph has been increasing, and he has finally snapped. In Macbeth, Macbeth's desire to murder the king represents evil. The king has done nothing to Macbeth, and has even gone out of his way to be nice, and Macbeth wants to murder him. Lady Macbeth also represents evil, she is even more intent of Duncan dying than Macbeth. Evil can be seen in the very beginning in Macbeth, and in Lord of the Flies evil is shadowed, but slowly emerges as the plot thickens. Today, evil is everywhere. I agree with Natalie, in the thought that 9/11 was the first evil act that I thought of in connection to these books.
ReplyDeleteIn both Macbeth and Lord of the Flies evil plays an imperative role in the plotline. I agree with Noah in how he said Jack’s evil is greed. Jack has gone crazy ever since the group split into two. Jack is now killing every pig he sees, but is also trying to avoid the beast. Also how can you explain a pig’s head stuck into a spear into the ground? He also ordered his group to go steal fire from Ralph and Piggy, which means hid group will have everything. Jack even started to show some leadership for a chapter or so, but went back to his normal ways when he chickened out on hunting down the beast. Now that the groups have split their chance of being rescued has decreased and will deteriorate if “war” breaks out. In Macbeth, surprisingly Lady Macbeth has shown off her side of evil first. She is persuading her husband to kill King Duncan to get the throne. Macbeth is resistant to it, but his wife is telling him that it must happen if he wants the throne. I think the evil in these stories will come back to haunt Macbeth and Jack. In Macbeth the witch’s prophecy doesn’t even state that Macbeth has to kill the King to have the throne. That shows you the inner character of Macbeth and his wife. In Lord of the Flies it will haunt Jack because since there is two different groups he will always want to be competition for everything. What if possibly he kills so many pigs that it ends the race on the island, then what would him and even Ralph’s group do for food? Ralph and Jack must make peace so that they won’t die on the island.
ReplyDeleteThe lust of power in both Lord of the Flies and in Macbeth is the main evil. The emergence of evil is in both cases from one person he deserves the position of leadership more than the person in the seat of power. I think that Jared hit the nail on the head in his description of how thirst for power can tear one apart, and drive them to do things they wouldn't normally do. Jack in Lord of the Flies wants power because of the fact that he disagrees with the ideals that Ralph has put in place. Macbeth wants the power because he feels entitled to it since the witches gave him the prophecy.
ReplyDeleteAs opposed to Kendall, the first thing that came to my mind that connected the evil in the books to the real world was the American Revolution. Our founding fathers disagreed with English rule, and thought that we were entitled to our own rule, so they broke off just as Jack did in The Lord of the Flies, and attacked the power like Macbeth in Macbeth.
A similarity I saw was that in both, the characters to begin with were good, and level headed. But, as circumstances changed, the darker side of these characters came out. In LOF, for example, Jack was a proper English choir boy to begin with. Now, he is leaving a pig's head on a stick as an offering to a dead pilot, and running around the jungle naked hunting pigs. This shows the charcters' true will power. The stronger can "keep their cool," while the others sucumb to their barbaric side. Some parallels to life in the real world are in the halls at school. When put under pressure, a student may change their mind to please the crowd, even if it goes against their true self. We must all be careful to withstand temptations to betray ourselves to others' desires.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the first eight chapters of Lord of the Flies and the first act of Macbeth, I can definitely see a huge aspect of evil going on in both stories. In both of the stories, there is a want for power and a want for more that is governing these people to do whatever it takes to be on top. In Lord of the Flies, Jack has become the main evil character in the story. He has broken off from the regular group and is taking people with him. He loves hunting and he has started to even take fire from the others. Then he says that his group is much better and everyone is welcome, and like it says in the story, he does not realize that the fire is the only thing that will actually get them off the island. In Macbeth, the main evil character has become Lady Macbeth. She is really caught up in the process of Macbeth becoming King and she will stop at nothing to make it so. She does not care who she has to go through to get what she wants even if it means killing their king. The element of evil has become very prominent in both stories.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Matthew. Macbeth was good in the beginning. He was loyal to the King and killed the king's betrayer. But now Macbeth is the betrayer. Same goes with LOF's somewhat evil character, Jack. He was an okay person at the beginning, but he has become evil.His greed for power is starting to devour him, and also his lust for hunting. This caused him to break apart from his original tribe. And his first evil deed as chief was savagely slaughtering a mother pig, driving like 3 spears into her, and then hacking at her with a knife. In Macbeth, Macbeth also is starting to have a desire for more power. Thane of Cawdor isn't enough, so he is willing to kill at least two people to earn the title of king. This isn't like super villain evil, in both of these this is a truer form of evil. I think that the evil in these books is going to appear more and more through out the books. With Jack starting to raid Ralph's tribe for fire, and Duncan sleeping at Macbeth's castle, the true evil is going to appear soon enough.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading Macbeth Act 1 and the first eight chapters of LOF, both articles include one specific type of evil, challenging and throwing away priorities. Jack in LOF challenges Ralph in his leadership by setting his own priorities ahead of Ralph's and rebelling according to them. For example he was willing to let the fire (the only way of being rescued) go out in order to become a macho man and go kill a pig. Macbeth portrays the same qualities in Lady Macbeth. She sets her own goals and wants in front of Macbeth's loyalty and challenges his trust and morals for her own good. Unfortunately the mindset of people today is no different. Setting priorities is a hard thing for today's world to do especially because of economy. Nobody knows where to start and some have challenged morals by cheating to get ahead.
ReplyDelete*interesting thought by MariaK! both stories use spears and heads...
The characters Jack and Macbeth are complex. They both desire power and to be a leader. However, their motives are not initially evil. Their ambition is motivated because they believe that they are the most capable leaders. They grow jealous of the current rulers, and find fault with their every action. Their actions start out small, but soon they spiral out of control and become unrelatable to the normal person. The characters ultimately lose sight of themselves, and become evil.Jack might not be considered evil. All he did was form his own group because he didn’t agree with the current system, much like in the American Revolution. However, this move was very, very selfish. He dismisses all responsibility so that he can just hunt. He leaves a select few to care for the little children, not caring about them themselves, and he leaves being rescued, as though it was not important, to other people with enough on their plates. Even in real life, this can be found. For example, we always hear about politicians who have bribed others and companies who have bought legislation benefits. Once you have power, it in control when you can buy your way out of a bad situation instead of learn from it and take the consequences; you lose some of who you are. A couple of years ago, the CEO’s of Enron ruined many people’s lives out of pure selfishness. You can argue that their actions were evil. However, they did not see it like that. Power had blinded them.
ReplyDeleteI think that the role of evil in Lord of the Flies and Macbeth is definitely greed, but also partly fear.
ReplyDeleteIn Lord of the Flies Jack is power thirsty and he finds joy from having control over the boys and the pigs. He wants to be the chief instead of Ralph, and I am curious to see what he will do to obtain this power.
In Macbeth most of the greediness is coming from Lady Macbeth which influences Macbeth himself. They both are greedy to obtain the throne and will do anything to get it.
The second evil which is fear is prevalent in both Macbeth an Lord of the Flies. In Macbeth, Macbeth is scared that he won’t be the man his wife expects him to be if he does not kill Duncan. This is equivalent to the peer pressure of today.
In Lord of the Flies, the boys are scared of the “beastie”. They have a fear even though it is unrealistic. This goes on today in the form of the media. The media over exaggerates things that really aren’t that harmful, and people find themselves living in fear.
I agree with Mariah on the dark opinion. It is true that more fears and crime happen in the dark and at night.
I think that in Lord of the Flies, there isn’t evil, just people going against each other. Jack could be “evil” in the sense that he started his own group against Ralph, but that’s based on how you see the story. In Macbeth, however, Lady Macbeth seems to be the most evil out of all the characters so far. Sure Macbeth went along with her idea of killing the king, but she is the power-hungry mastermind behind the plan.
ReplyDeleteYou could also say that in Lord of the Flies, that the beastie is evil, but considering that that character hasn’t really been explained yet, all there is to go off of is the boys reaction to ‘seeing’ it in the woods.
In Lord of the Flies, I wouldn't really call it evil as much as survival of the fittest. In the book, the kids are just trying to survive and to be top dog. Anyone who the kind of feel that they don't like or is too weak, they slowly wittle them down. In Lady Macbeth, there is a strong sense of evil. The power struggle is kind of fueled by Lady Macbeth. This, however, is human nature; to advance in power and rule others. In LOF, the only real evil is the boys claiming they saw a beastie in the woods, whatever a beastie may be.
ReplyDeleteIn the Lord of the Flies and Macbeth, there is evil, although it varies in the degree of evil, the books show us how far people are willing to go in order to achieve their desires fueled by evil. In Lord of the Flies, although Jack and Ralph were okay, almost friends in the beginning, but greed and lust for power are causing Jack to stop caring for others and to only achive his goals of becoming chief. In Macbeth, the sources of evil are the witches and Lady Macbeth, because the witches seem to be trying to lead Macbeth and Banquo in the wrong direction, and to cause havoc, while Lady Macbeth is trying to kill King Duncan with Macbeth, and she doesn’t care about the consequences that it will create. Evil is created from and displayed by many things, and one of them is greed. Greed causes us to hurt people so that we can get more than what we already have and to stop caring about others, but it is not evil unless it starts hurting other people or you just want too much. If there was some toy that you wanted, it would not make you greedy, but if you wanted 20 of those exact toys, you’d probably be considered greedy, especially if you had a friend who couldn’t even afford one of those same toys. Today there is still lots of greed, and lots of evil, in government, in out friends, in our family, and even people we think we know well, but if we can control it, and stop it from hurting other people, then I think that’s all that truly matters…
ReplyDeletewhat i really dont like in Macbeth and bever have liked is that Macbeth is not an evil person. evil is forced upon him by his insane wife. in LOF simon has become crazy because of his lack of water, high temperatures, and the tropical island scene. for instance, simon talks to a dead pig..... i think a dead pig with flies coming out of it's eyes and mouth is a little less then good. In todays society, evil has been, is, and always will be present for as long as man walks the earth. coruption is a example of evil that is present today. all people have one of the seven deadly sins guide them through life.
ReplyDeleteEvil is all relative. What may seem evil to one person may seem just and fair to another. For instance, the atomic bomb and the obliteration of Hiroshima and Nagasaki seemed unreasonable and cruel to the victims, but seemed completely justified to the American public. Maybe that's the root of evil: victims. Those affected by the "evil" deeds will call them evil, while those not affected may just shirk them off. This is true in Macbeth as the victims of the murder of King Duncan will return with cries of evil doings, those who did not like Dincan may not feel the same sentiments as those affected. In Lord of the Flies, those who have no hope of rising to the top of the newly formed and self proclaimed hierarchy will call the actions of Jack and his compatriots evil.
ReplyDeleteThere are references to evil all over LOF and Macbeth. Some of the most evil ideas are the differences between Ralph and Jack that are emerging violently, and the reasoning of Macbeth murdering Duncan. I think the most evil part of LOF is not the pig’s head on a stick in the ground, but the betrayal and greed committed by many island members. This kind of betrayal is huge with Jack and Ralph as they separate from one another. The real evil here is that they could all be getting off the island and making the best of the situation if they would just work together. I think their greed masks the fact that they are tolerant of each other. In Macbeth, he believes that killing Duncan is the right thing to do. Maybe because it was “destiny” because of the witches’ prophecy, maybe because of his wife, who knows? For some reason he still kills Duncan despite the fact that he never wanted to. This is the evil of Macbeth. His reasoning and his actions being different make him very confused. Self-righteous evil is in the Pendragon series of books. The evil character, Saint Dane, believes that killing millions of people is the right thing to do. It’s very messed up this way, and makes the character seem even more evil.
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