Whitney- I do not think that Montag will burn the books because he has saved them already and he just opened them to read. I think he will not want anything to happen to the books once he realizes how special they really are.
Class - Like the inner circle has been talking about, women's rights seem very limited. If we worked so hard to gain women's rights, how could it have evolved back to the way it was before?(women are more held back)
Whitney No, he will definitely not burn the books. I don't know what the outcome will be but I think it will be more radical than just submitting to society.
Class>Are the firemen more or less “human” (I'm not quite sure how to put this. Real?) than the other people? They get to read books, they seem intelligent, unlike the pasty, dieting, stringy, Mildred, whose only care is what to wacth.
Whitney- I do not think at that he will, Guy is too attached to the book. I also think that the books will be burned in the end by Betty who knows Montag has at least one book.
Vivan- If we go back in society to a time where we aren't allowed to express ourselves, learn, or be inspired, thorugh books, I think it's highly posssible for women to lose their rights.
Vivian - I think everyone is more held back to make things more equal. This is not only the act of burning books, but keeping people trapped in technology
Karyn- I agree with you because there would not be any more plot to the story if he ended up burning every single book that he has and then become the mindless, book-burning zombie that everyone wants him to be.
Nick: I think the fireman were specially picked for what they do. It means that they aren't any more human than the regular person but they showed the signs of intelligence and the ability to follow orders and to contain curiosity.
Nicholas I think that the firemen are real people because Montag is a fireman and he has a wife and he has doubts. I think the firemen just have benefits that other citizens don't just because of his occupation.
Whitney- I believe that he will end up deciding not to burn the books because he becomes very attached to them. I do think however that they will be burned eventually.
Vivian- I think that the was trying to keep women suppresed during the period the book was wrote so Bradbury just guessed it would revert back to the old way.
Nick, The firemen have a stereotype of being tough and mean, as Clarisse mentioned. However, they may seem so because they deal with fire, and always smell of kerosene.
Nick- I think the firemen operate at a different level then the rest of society, kind of like FBI agents that know more about whats going on in the real world then the public is allowed to know
Class> Will inventions like the telephone and online networking lead us to a more informed society, or a society like in the book, in which people have become stringy, pasty, red-eyed morons?
Carl - This will be a defining moment in their relationship. It's really what it takes to make each other show who they are again. Books can help them rekindle their personalities.
Vivian- I think that women's rights were taken away at the same time that books began to be burned. If the government does this, then people should at least try to revolt i know that I would
Stephen- I don't think he's viewing technology in a negative light, but saying taking it too far is very wrong and bad. I think that he's also saying that books are important and technology will never fully replace them.
John: If someone has a schedule that they do everyday it is very hard to change. If there is something you know how to do and do it well most people won't change because they want to keep doing something the way they know how. It's hard to try something new.
I really like the question Abby is posing here. How did Montag find these books and why these one's especially? To me it seems like overtime he has picked up the ones that seemed the most important to him.
Nick, That sounds like the movie Wall-E, where people are constantly "plugged in" to their computers. However, in the end, they unplug and can still see how beautiful life is.
Whitney- I believe it could work either way. It's kinda like how you could go about acheiving world peace. Could you be a pacifist, and get everyone else to stop fighting, but not fight at all yourself?
Nicholas- No it would not because those tecnological inventions could also be used to discuss books, like a book discussion that we are having right now.
Stephen- The author is conveying technology in a negative light to show us what our future could possibly become. We will not realize how much technology has taken over until it is too late.
Nick- I think the fire men are human they just have more power in the society. This is contradicting the purpose of the society. They wanted to make everyone equal.
NickM> Well, he can't do it in public- that'd be suicide. If he finds a way to spread his message for a long period of time, and has a way to snap them out of brainwashing, people might try to become more informed... But how would they?
Nick M - Yes, I think if others learn of his "enlightenment", they will want it too. But for this to work he must make it known that he is different. This could also lead to his downfall.
Ian-Like I already stated, technology is a weapon that can only be used for good if it is in the hands of the right mindset, otherwise it can weild destruction.
Nick- i think that the rise of technology is slowly taking over oour life and in the near future we will be replaced by humanoid robots that we control from the relative safety of our homes, like in the movie, Surrogates.
Stephen - I think Bradbury is attempting to explain that if people continue relying on technology, then instead of improving our lives, it is harming us in the long run. However, many people don't believe this or can't do anything to change the path we are on now.
Stephen- I believe that Bradbury displays technology in a negative light because even though it is a very crucial part in their society it takes away from the people being to realize the simple joys in life. Such as reading books or getting fresh air. Technology gives the people an excuse to stay inside and live their lives without discovering these things that used to be a main part of life.
Stephen- I agree with what you are saying pertaining to some technology, but I think that for a few things, if our society does not pull back on how much we are using a certain piece of technology, it will not end well.
Nick: I think at first people will look down upon his actions, but this will be the second spark to start the fire, and soon people will realise what he's doing is the right thing to do.
Nick- I believe that Montag will be able to challenge the system, I doubt that he'll have many followers, since not very many people think differently from society, but that he will join another group who thinks like he does.
Karyn, I think that will give him a better chance. It is easier to support something you know more about. You can be more sincere. So, he will be better able to convnce others to follow.
Jonathan- Mildred’s mention of going fast and hitting animal is supposed to represent how the society enjoys having their lives zoom past and also how the this society no longer harbors any feelings for the worries and cares of others.
Karyn - Yes. I read the Pendragon series of books and the protagonist was able to defeat evil with things that aren't from the area/time period. This can confuse people, and knowledge of the past can do a lot to people's minds.
Matthew- But since one person is strong enough to stand up against the book burning, I think that other people would come out of their shadows and the with Montag with protecting the books.
Kendall: I think we have to give our selves more credit. We are smart people and I do think we have boundaries that we won't cross. Not everything can be replaced and think we will cling to these as our last bits of humanity and expand on it if this were ever to happen.
Karyn- I think that if Montag reads these books he could grow fond and unoffically end his career as the firefighter and become an 'enemy' of the government.
Lauren - I agree that everyone's rights are denied, but it seems that the women can't think or do as much as men. For example, why can only men be firefighters or paramedics when apparently the job doesn't involve talent?
Johnny: I disagree because the fear of books and years of tradition will be hard to get rid of just because of one guy and his actions. I think that he will have to first get some followers before anything big can happen.
Class: Captian obviously knows that Montag has taken some books. He gave him the warning hes is only allowed 24 hours. How do you think Montag will go about this factor of the situation?
Class, Beatty makes it sound as though society gradually rejected books. Is there anything that we have naturally rejected from our society? How does this change your perspective of men like Beatty, who are all for burning books?
Carl- Beatty said that once in a while fireman are able to keep books for 24 hours until it must be burnt, so technically he is not challenging the system yet.
Class- Montague says to himself that he will never go back. What will happen if he quits his job? Would this be considered unacceptable in his society?
Carl Good point but I think that there is some leniency for the firemen so I think Montag won't get in trouble unless he does anything radical with the books.
Class> How can Montag start a revolution in that kind of society? I hate to say it, but the government might have him beat. Think about it. They will arrest anyone trying to enlighten or who has recieved enlightenment in a day. This is not enough time to snap them out of their total brainwashing. Besides, how would the citizens revolt? All of their societies corners and dangers have been sanded off.
Karyn- I do believe that Montag can challenge the system better because he can see what the government dislikes about the books. Therefore he can bend the rules further because he is on the inside of the governments reasoning for burning the books.
Johnny- I agree with what you are saying. It might take a little while to get started, but eventually, more and more people would be converted to go away from their reliance on technology.
Class- Off of what Logan is saying, I think that it is mainly the people that bring their own curiosity, but that time period and that society help too. Do you think that something else might contribute to this curiosity?
Anna- The captain actually came back to check on him but I think that Montag will try to keep them as long as possible. But eventually people will find out and then Montag will be forced to act.
Karyn - Of course. Even today many people get knowledge and ideas from books. Those people can challenge the system and end up asking why instead of how.
Nick, During colonial times, colonists were arrested for protesting the government. However, they broke free and formed a new one. It can be done, but must be done with violence.
Karyn- Montag is already challenging the system and based on number of books he had been collecting he must have been challenging the system for some time. But until his encounter with Clarisse, Montag only kept the books now he is reading them and gaining the knowledge that caused people to burn the books in the first place.
Outer circle- don't forget that you need to be participating in the inner circle as well. The focus should be on the inner circle conversation as much as the live blogging.
Matthew-Beatty seems to know alot of the history of books and the ways of the current society. Maybe Beatty knows more about the past then we think he knows? If he does, do you think it might cause more of a change of how we think the firemen operate?
Vivian: You make it sound like were almost in denial. I know the path we are on because when I look at society, I'm proud of what we have accomplished. We know also that we have to diversify from just technology and develope something else because there is only so far we can work with technology.
Mathew Society has rejected different things at different points in history, such as segregation between African Americans and whites. So Beatty's view is a legitimate illustration of peoples opinions.
Kendall- I think that he will feel somewhat lost as to what to do if he quits his job, but that he will feel a lot more free than when he was buring books. He will probably be made into an outcast, because he used to be like them, but now he is different, and doesn't thnk the same as they do now.
James, I don't think that all the firemen are necessarily smarter than anyone else. A lot of the smarter people would have realized how to gain power and rise up in the government, or spoken out and been silenced.
Matthew- They weren't totally brainwashed, however.These people spend the majority of their time talking to a TV. Besides, that government was extremely lenient and kind! They knew of the revolution for a while and tried to appease them.
Jonathan- I dont think that books are considered dangerous in that context, books are more of the spark of a fight because they cause disagreements of ideas.
James- I think the firemen have been instructed to keep the general population. The firemen do not know any more than ordinary people, but they have been instructed to do a job, and they do not think to question it.
Johnny- I think that the Government DEFINITELY wanted people to think books are dangerous just like now the government wants drugs to be illegal even though people can have medical Marijuana.
James, I completely agree with that interpratation. For instance, they only kept the comic books, which aren't that intelectual. The books represent the people like Clarrise who ask why, not how.
Matthew- Good point. I just realized that everything society has "rejected" is due to advancements in technology. Before cars, there were horse-and-buggys, before airplanes there were trains, or at least extensive use of trains.
Kendall- I think if Montag quits his job he will be suspected for keeping books and this would be considered treason in a way. He has spent his whole adult life burning books and he has never had a problem with it.
Inner circle, Beatty seems sure that if Montag reads a book, he will see how wicked it is, and be more resistant to reading more in the future. However, will this work on Montag?
Vivian: I agree with you. I do not think that we need to stop using technology all together, but I do think that we have to understand that technology can change people for the worse.
Vivian- Technology helps us so much but it might come to a point that we are so dependent on it. There is no way to tell the future but if that does happen we will be adjusted, there won't be that much of a difference I think.
Class: I completely agree with what Abby said and I think that Montag will not think that books are pointless and he will want more. Do you think that this could have happened to some of the other firemen?
Whitney- I think the fireman are more intelligent because Captain Beatty has said quotes the other fireman has never heard before, and compared with Mildred so far in the book, he knows how to speak intellectually.
Inner Circle- I think that if the government controls education completly, then they can control what people think and dont think. In a way, thats kind of controlling the actual people.
Matthew- I do not think that it will work on Mantaq because he is more like Clarrise than anyone else. He will appriecate the books and then he will be more against burning the books.
Sage- That's a good point, but he has now discovered he no longer enjoys burning books. Yes, he might be shunned, but I do not think that will stop him from discontinuing to burn books when he has discovered what is written in the books he burns.
Matthew - Montag already reads books but has seen what happens to people who hide books. He is the person who will challenge the system and will probably continue reading books.
Class- A lot of people seem to be going back to saying that technology will be our downfall and if we don't stop the growth of technology this is what will happen. What suggests the fact that this will ever happen?
John, Yes, and they may have already been silenced by the government. We saw Clarrise vanish, and nobody even noticed. This could happen to other firemen that speak out.
John: I think that is a possibilty for sure, but I see more of a tragic ending. I feel like Montag will become like the old lady and will fall in love with the books. Which later he will have to pay for.
Matthew- I don't think this will work on Montag because he had already started to question the world he lives in. Montag is a different person that everyone thinks will think the same. They are underestimating him.
Class- Why do you think that up until Montag met Clarisse he was completely content with burning the books? He had no problem with it. He also never thought about keeping the books. Explain?
John--I think it is possible other firefighters will challenge the system like Montag after reading books, but unlikely. The only reason Montag thinks anything of the books is because of Clarisse's influence, and there don't seem to be many people like her in society.
Avery- We are spending more and more time using computers and other forms of technology, and we bocome attached to it, whether we want it or not, and whether we realize it or not.
Avery, There are many stories of how technology has taken over people's lives. There was even a couple that let their baby starve as they played a virtual game with a virtual baby. These stories could be the beginning of a "metamorphisis" for our society. It is sobering.
Class> Is that society really all that different from today? It might shock you, but we had Sedition Acts in WW1, WW2, and the Cold War that prohibited any attempt to speak out against the government- It was a law. We don't know exactly how long it has been going on- the book burning. This country is about to enter war. They can't afford anything like a revolution. Besides, today, people will sue for the worst things- If anything is even remotely controversal, it gets sued and challenged.
Mitch - The government might seem like they are controlling the actual people, but think of Clarisse and Montag. Like Bradbury said, there is sometimes an oddball or someone who thinks, that the government can't control.
Avery: I agree with them that technology will be our downfall. This is possible because computers are starting to be smarter than humans. What happens when we try to control the computers, but they get so intelligent they think for themselves? It's possible because it's so hard for every human to stop thinking about new possiblities in technology.
Sage- I think that the reason that Montag had no problem with it is because he had not thought about what it meant or what it did. After he talked to Clarisse, he had something to think about and his mind was opened up to a whole new idea.
Kendall, Clarrise may have died. But, before she did, she passed on "the torch" to Montag (like Banquo passed it to his son in Macbeth). This puts more weight on Montag's shoulders.
Sage- He had been collecting books for a while. He had around twenty which was appartently a lot for the world he was living in. Also Clarisse was the spark that lit this search for knowledge within Montag. She is the reason he started to question everything.
Kendall- I think that Clarisse is really, and truly dead. I think the author was just using her to advance the plot, not to really play a major role other than setting thinkgs into motion.
Kendall-CLarisse is what represented that last virtue of common sense the society has left. Now Montag feels it is his duty to share the lifestyle and ideas she had with the world
Class: With all the talk of government going on in the inner circle, what are your views? Do you feel the government is the same sort of national government we have now? Has it changed to a world super power?
Sage- Montag had no problem with burning books because he never thought about what he was burring, he only became a fireman because that’s what his ancestors had done. Also Montag was obsessed with the trill that fire gave him. Also before Montag meat Clarisse he was keeping books and storing them in his ventilator.
Nick- I did know about sedition and I think that this just shows insecurity within a person, government, any functioning thing. Sedition acts in the government are stuck up leaders who dont like to be called names or have 1 person unhappy in their own false utopia
Lauren, They have put out so many electronic stimulants and other unnatural means, such as the TV walls and their reliance on sleeping pills. Even Montag takes one to fall asleep. Class, What is the danger of a society reliant on drugs, both chemical and electronic?
Greg: I agree with you that Clarisse is dead, but I do think she is a major character and represents so much, and only is in a small portion of the book.
Kendall--I don't think Clarisse is really dead. If she was, how would Montag's wife know? She spends her entire life in the parlor with her Aunts and Uncles. I think it is more likely Clarisse relocated with her family to avoid being tracked. Also, if they move around a lot, they can influence more people. Mildred may have just made this story up to stop her husband from questioning.
Nick- I think it is different but the same. It is different because it was a different way to constrict citizens. It is the same because our government has constricted us but just in different ways. It seems normal in our society while it seems normal for their society too.
Stephen- That may be true for you and me, but not everyone has willpower. Some people just can't stop what they are doing, which is how people get addicting to anything, even technology.
Sean, If Captain Beatty took the books from Montag, he would make himself an enemy. Montag has to do this on his own if Beatty wants a chance of Montag's return.
Kendall: The author killed Clarrisse because the book is about him challenging the system. She provides the spark to the kerosene, but the book is not about her adventures with Montag.
Nicholas S I think you have a great idea, especially about the whole suing craze. It seems like anything in this world is a little uncomfortable, it's somebody's fault and it's never you. So someone has to make it all better for you.
Avery- There will always be protestors. Look at Clairesse and her family. They talk to each other and use little to no technology. But the Amish are a minority and the world will be taken over by technology first before we all become Amish.
Matthew - A society reliant on sleeping pills forgets how to fall asleep. A society reliant on facebook will forget how to talk to people. We won't know how to do anything for ourselves anymore.
Outer and inner circle, The topic of summarizing books and classic novels was discussed in the book. In summarizing these books, the real content is lost, which can be the best part of reading them. This is like in the movie Cars, where the people (or cars) have become caught up in the end result, rather than the journey.
Megan- Remember how Mildred said that she liked to drive around really fast, well it could have been Mildred that actually killed Clarisse. Since Clarisse died by getting run over by a car, Mildred could have gotten jealous be Montag constantly thinking about Clarisse and not his own wife.
Stephen - I love how you said Clarisse is the spark to the kerosene. She is like the leader of a future rebellion. If Clarisse is the spark, who fuels the fire?
James- Your such a poet. Thats a eally good analogy considering before the books he lived a life with nothing besides the same motions everyday with the same cycle
Johnny- Yes but how often do you think, why did the government do that!, and realized they had in a way just limited your freedoms a little or when a new piece of technology comes out and you think, i NEED that when in fact you really don't you just want to have the newest and coolest gadget?
Jack: People who get to power, glory, and wealth have willpower to do the things they don't want. The most powerful people are the ones who can do what they don't want to but endure the discomfort. The people who get to enough power to do this would have the willpower.
Matthew C.- A society that is reliant on drugs could potentially have many problems. Once they become dependent on the drugs, the people will find it extremely difficult to live without them. Drugs also create many problems. Today, we are very reliant on drugs, and it has been suggested that the drugs we use have caused serious health issues, such as autism and severe allergies. These health issues did not exist in such a serious state until recently.
Class: Do you think that Montag will end up burning the books in the end?
ReplyDeleteWhitney - I don't think he will, but I think Mildred will try to force him to.
ReplyDeleteWhitney: i do think he will but only after his wifes life is on the line or the hound is hunting him.
ReplyDeleteLauren - This will lead to an emotional climax between the two, which has been brewing
ReplyDeleteWhitney- I do not think that Montag will burn the books because he has saved them already and he just opened them to read. I think he will not want anything to happen to the books once he realizes how special they really are.
ReplyDeleteor will Mildred learn to love the books?
ReplyDeleteLauren,
ReplyDeleteOr Mildred will turn him in. She doesn't show him the same care he's shown her.
Whitney- I think that he only will if it will help him challenge the system/government.
ReplyDeleteLauren: what leads you to believe Milred will try to burn the books?
ReplyDeleteClass - Like the inner circle has been talking about, women's rights seem very limited. If we worked so hard to gain women's rights, how could it have evolved back to the way it was before?(women are more held back)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhitney
ReplyDeleteNo, he will definitely not burn the books. I don't know what the outcome will be but I think it will be more radical than just submitting to society.
Class>Are the firemen more or less “human” (I'm not quite sure how to put this. Real?) than the other people? They get to read books, they seem intelligent, unlike the pasty, dieting, stringy, Mildred, whose only care is what to wacth.
ReplyDeleteAvery - Do you think that Montag would care that much if Mildred's life is on the line? It doesn't seem like he truely loves her to me.
ReplyDeleteWhitney- I do not think at that he will, Guy is too attached to the book. I also think that the books will be burned in the end by Betty who knows Montag has at least one book.
ReplyDeleteJustin-We already know the climax but do you think that this will be the moment that defines
ReplyDeletetheir relationship?
Emily- It seems that Mildred is maybe becoming more relaxed with the books and I think that you are right about her.
ReplyDeleteGreg: Wouldn't it be more affective in challenging the system if he didn't burn the books?
ReplyDeleteOuter Circle- I can't believe I have to say this again, but let's proofread our responses and use proper punctuation.
ReplyDeleteNick - I think the firemen are outcasts in society because of their intelligence.
ReplyDeleteClass: What do you think the author wants to get across by showing technology in a negative light? Why?
ReplyDeleteKaryn- Mildred much rathers the entertainment of tv in the palor and she does not really think of books at all.
ReplyDeleteVivan- If we go back in society to a time where we aren't allowed to express ourselves, learn, or be inspired, thorugh books, I think it's highly posssible for women to lose their rights.
ReplyDeleteVivian - I think everyone is more held back to make things more equal. This is not only the act of burning books, but keeping people trapped in technology
ReplyDeleteKaryn- I agree with you because there would not be any more plot to the story if he ended up burning every single book that he has and then become the mindless, book-burning zombie that everyone wants him to be.
ReplyDeleteNick: I think the fireman were specially picked for what they do. It means that they aren't any more human than the regular person but they showed the signs of intelligence and the ability to follow orders and to contain curiosity.
ReplyDeleteClass- Why do you think that the firemen that know about the past do not try to challenge the system with their knowledge?
ReplyDeleteNicholas
ReplyDeleteI think that the firemen are real people because Montag is a fireman and he has a wife and he has doubts. I think the firemen just have benefits that other citizens don't just because of his occupation.
Whitney- I believe that he will end up deciding not to burn the books because he becomes very attached to them. I do think however that they will be burned eventually.
ReplyDeleteVivian- I think that the was trying to keep women suppresed during the period the book was wrote so Bradbury just guessed it would revert back to the old way.
ReplyDeleteNick,
ReplyDeleteThe firemen have a stereotype of being tough and mean, as Clarisse mentioned. However, they may seem so because they deal with fire, and always smell of kerosene.
Nick- I think the firemen operate at a different level then the rest of society, kind of like FBI agents that know more about whats going on in the real world then the public is
ReplyDeleteallowed to know
Stephen: I think that Bradbury is trying to show that technology can be more harm then it is worth.
ReplyDeleteClass> Will inventions like the telephone and online networking lead us to a more informed society, or a society like in the book, in which people have become stringy, pasty, red-eyed morons?
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteThey have been taught that books are bad since they were born. To them, it is normal, and natural.
Carl - This will be a defining moment in their relationship. It's really what it takes to make each other show who they are again. Books can help them rekindle their personalities.
ReplyDeleteJohn:
ReplyDeleteThey probaly are too scared to act on the knowledge they have. Or,they don't realize the impotance of the gift they have.
Vivian- I think that women's rights were taken away at the same time that books began to be burned. If the government does this, then people should at least try to revolt i know that I would
ReplyDeleteStephen- I don't think he's viewing technology in a negative light, but saying taking it too far is very wrong and bad. I think that he's also saying that books are important and technology will never fully replace them.
ReplyDeleteKaryn: I think Mildred will try to burn the books because her first reaction to the books that Montag had was to try to put them in the incinerator.
ReplyDeleteJohn: If someone has a schedule that they do everyday it is very hard to change. If there is something you know how to do and do it well most people won't change because they want to keep doing something the way they know how. It's hard to try something new.
ReplyDeleteStephen
ReplyDeleteI think that Bradbury used humoring technology to show people that technology is not all good. It could harm humanity more than it helps.
I really like the question Abby is posing here. How did Montag find these books and why these one's especially? To me it seems like overtime he has picked up the ones that seemed the most important to him.
ReplyDeleteClass- Do you think that since Montag has the means to stand up against the system, others might follow?
ReplyDeleteNick-Technology will only allow mankind to accomplish more in an easier manner, so it depends on how they choose to use it
ReplyDeleteNick,
ReplyDeleteThat sounds like the movie Wall-E, where people are constantly "plugged in" to their computers. However, in the end, they unplug and can still see how beautiful life is.
Whitney- I believe it could work either way. It's kinda like how you could go about acheiving world peace. Could you be a pacifist, and get everyone else to stop fighting, but not fight at all yourself?
ReplyDeleteClass: Why does Montag tell Mildred that he enjoys going 95 miles per hour hitting rabbits and dogs?
ReplyDeleteWhitney:
ReplyDeleteWhy is it more harm than it's worth? Isn't some technology good. I mean, without technology, this book couldn't even be published.
Nicholas- No it would not because those tecnological inventions could also be used to discuss books, like a book discussion that we are having right now.
ReplyDeleteStephen- The author is conveying technology in a negative light to show us what our future could possibly become. We will not realize how much technology has taken over until it is too late.
ReplyDeleteMatthew- Don't get me and Ian started on WALL-E again.
ReplyDeleteNick- I think the fire men are human they just have more power in the society. This is contradicting the purpose of the society. They wanted to make everyone equal.
ReplyDeleteNick M.,
ReplyDeleteI do think that others will follow. If no one would follow, they would all obey the law, and there wouldn't be a need for firemen.
NickM> Well, he can't do it in public- that'd be suicide. If he finds a way to spread his message for a long period of time, and has a way to snap them out of brainwashing, people might try to become more informed... But how would they?
ReplyDeleteJonathan: He enjoys adrenaline. He likes that rush and that might be why he is a fire fighter. It gives him a rush of adrenaline.
ReplyDeleteNick M - Yes, I think if others learn of his "enlightenment", they will want it too. But for this to work he must make it known that he is different. This could also lead to his downfall.
ReplyDeleteIan-Like I already stated, technology is a weapon that can only be used for good if it is in the hands of the right mindset, otherwise it can weild destruction.
ReplyDeleteVivian - I think everyone's rights are denied, not just the women. The society seems to think that denying people's rights is equality.
ReplyDeleteNick S
ReplyDeleteTechnology wouldn't turn us into morons it could help humanity but there definitely should be a balance.
Jack,
ReplyDeleteAlright.
Nick- i think that the rise of technology is slowly taking over oour life and in the near future we will be replaced by humanoid robots that we control from the relative safety of our homes, like in the movie, Surrogates.
ReplyDeleteStephen - I think Bradbury is attempting to explain that if people continue relying on technology, then instead of improving our lives, it is harming us in the long run. However, many people don't believe this or can't do anything to change the path we are on now.
ReplyDeleteClass- Does reading these books give Montag a greater chance to challenge the system? Why?
ReplyDeleteJohnny- Mildred said that, not Montag
ReplyDeleteStephen- I believe that Bradbury displays technology in a negative light because even though it is a very crucial part in their society it takes away from the people being to realize the simple joys in life. Such as reading books or getting fresh air. Technology gives the people an excuse to stay inside and live their lives without discovering these things that used to be a main part of life.
ReplyDeleteStephen- I agree with what you are saying pertaining to some technology, but I think that for a few things, if our society does not pull back on how much we are using a certain piece of technology, it will not end well.
ReplyDeleteNick: I think at first people will look down upon his actions, but this will be the second spark to start the fire, and soon people will realise what he's doing is the right thing to do.
ReplyDeleteSage: I think that is a really good point!
ReplyDeleteNick- I believe that Montag will be able to challenge the system, I doubt that he'll have many followers, since not very many people think differently from society, but that he will join another group who thinks like he does.
ReplyDeleteCarl
ReplyDeleteI agree but Bradbury could think differently. As you can see with the total exaggeration of the monsters technology has turned humans into.
Karyn- I think the books do help Montag challenge the system because books plant ideas and philosopies of the authors into the readers head.
ReplyDeleteKaryn-Isnt Montag already challenging the system by keeping the books illegaly?
ReplyDeleteKaryn,
ReplyDeleteI think that will give him a better chance. It is easier to support something you know more about. You can be more sincere. So, he will be better able to convnce others to follow.
Jonathan- Mildred’s mention of going fast and hitting animal is supposed to represent how the society enjoys having their lives zoom past and also how the this society no longer harbors any feelings for the worries and cares of others.
ReplyDeleteKaryn- I think it does because books don't just have ideas in them, they give you ideas and make you think.
ReplyDeleteKaryn - Yes. I read the Pendragon series of books and the protagonist was able to defeat evil with things that aren't from the area/time period. This can confuse people, and knowledge of the past can do a lot to people's minds.
ReplyDeleteMatthew- But since one person is strong enough to stand up against the book burning, I think that other people would come out of their shadows and the with Montag with protecting the books.
ReplyDeleteKendall:
ReplyDeleteI think we have to give our selves more credit. We are smart people and I do think we have boundaries that we won't cross. Not everything can be replaced and think we will cling to these as our last bits of humanity and expand on it if this were ever to happen.
Karyn: I think reading the books are feuling his fire. There teaching him to think about the world and think for himself.
ReplyDeleteKaryn- I think that if Montag reads these books he could grow fond and unoffically end his career as the firefighter and become an 'enemy' of the government.
ReplyDeleteLauren - I agree that everyone's rights are denied, but it seems that the women can't think or do as much as men. For example, why can only men be firefighters or paramedics when apparently the job doesn't involve talent?
ReplyDeleteJohnny: I disagree because the fear of books and years of tradition will be hard to get rid of just because of one guy and his actions. I think that he will have to first get some followers before anything big can happen.
ReplyDeleteClass: Captian obviously knows that Montag has taken some books. He gave him the warning hes is only allowed 24 hours. How do you think Montag will go about this factor of the situation?
ReplyDeleteClass,
ReplyDeleteBeatty makes it sound as though society gradually rejected books. Is there anything that we have naturally rejected from our society? How does this change your perspective of men like Beatty, who are all for burning books?
Carl- Beatty said that once in a while fireman are able to keep books for 24 hours until it must be burnt, so technically he is not challenging the system yet.
ReplyDeleteClass- Montague says to himself that he will never go back. What will happen if he quits his job? Would this be considered unacceptable in his society?
ReplyDeleteCarl
ReplyDeleteGood point but I think that there is some leniency for the firemen so I think Montag won't get in trouble unless he does anything radical with the books.
Sage- I agree with that. Obviously the system wants the citizens to be quiet and stay inside so they are safe and out of the way.
ReplyDeleteClass> How can Montag start a revolution in that kind of society? I hate to say it, but the government might have him beat. Think about it. They will arrest anyone trying to enlighten or who has recieved enlightenment in a day. This is not enough time to snap them out of their total brainwashing. Besides, how would the citizens revolt? All of their societies corners and dangers have been sanded off.
ReplyDeleteKaryn- I do believe that Montag can challenge the system better because he can see what the government dislikes about the books. Therefore he can bend the rules further because he is on the inside of the governments reasoning for burning the books.
ReplyDeleteJohnny- I agree with what you are saying. It might take a little while to get started, but eventually, more and more people would be converted to go away from their reliance on technology.
ReplyDeleteClass- Off of what Logan is saying, I think that it is mainly the people that bring their own curiosity, but that time period and that society help too. Do you think that something else might contribute to this curiosity?
ReplyDeleteClass: After what Beaty said about books and fireman, are books that dangerous?
ReplyDeleteAnna- The captain actually came back to check on him but I think that Montag will try to keep them as long as possible. But eventually people will find out and then Montag will be forced to act.
ReplyDeleteClass- Do you think the job of being a fireman is more of a cage to hold in the more intelligent people in the society?
ReplyDeleteKaryn - Of course. Even today many people get knowledge and ideas from books. Those people can challenge the system and end up asking why instead of how.
ReplyDeleteNick,
ReplyDeleteDuring colonial times, colonists were arrested for protesting the government. However, they broke free and formed a new one. It can be done, but must be done with violence.
Karyn- Montag is already challenging the system and based on number of books he had been collecting he must have been challenging the system for some time. But until his encounter with Clarisse, Montag only kept the books now he is reading them and gaining the knowledge that caused people to burn the books in the first place.
ReplyDeleteOuter circle- don't forget that you need to be participating in the inner circle as well. The focus should be on the inner circle conversation as much as the live blogging.
ReplyDeleteMatthew-Beatty seems to know alot of the history of books and the ways of the current society. Maybe Beatty knows more about the past then we think he knows? If he does, do you think it might cause more of a change of how we think the firemen operate?
ReplyDeleteNIck- Maybe, it will be more of a silent protest. Like we discussed in the last fishbowl, Clarisse's way of protesting is the best.
ReplyDeleteVivian:
ReplyDeleteYou make it sound like were almost in denial. I know the path we are on because when I look at society, I'm proud of what we have accomplished. We know also that we have to diversify from just technology and develope something else because there is only so far we can work with technology.
Mathew
ReplyDeleteSociety has rejected different things at different points in history, such as segregation between African Americans and whites. So Beatty's view is a legitimate illustration of peoples opinions.
Kendall- I think that he will feel somewhat lost as to what to do if he quits his job, but that he will feel a lot more free than when he was buring books. He will probably be made into an outcast, because he used to be like them, but now he is different, and doesn't thnk the same as they do now.
ReplyDeleteKendall- I think that people will begin to shun him like Johnny said. Then people will begin to discover that what he is doing is right.
ReplyDeleteJames,
ReplyDeleteI don't think that all the firemen are necessarily smarter than anyone else. A lot of the smarter people would have realized how to gain power and rise up in the government, or spoken out and been silenced.
Matthew- They weren't totally brainwashed, however.These people spend the majority of their time talking to a TV. Besides, that government was extremely lenient and kind! They knew of the revolution for a while and tried to appease them.
ReplyDeleteJonathan- I dont think that books are considered dangerous in that context, books are more of the spark of a fight because they cause disagreements of ideas.
ReplyDeleteJames- I think the firemen have been instructed to keep the general population. The firemen do not know any more than ordinary people, but they have been instructed to do a job, and they do not think to question it.
ReplyDeleteJames: Are you asking if the more intellegent men in society are the firemen and why?
ReplyDeleteIan-Beatty cannot speak for the entire society. Maybe he represenents a point of veiw many of the people there share.
ReplyDeleteJohnny- I think that the Government DEFINITELY wanted people to think books are dangerous just like now the government wants drugs to be illegal even though people can have medical Marijuana.
ReplyDeleteJames, I completely agree with that interpratation. For instance, they only kept the comic books, which aren't that intelectual. The books represent the people like Clarrise who ask why, not how.
ReplyDeleteMatthew- Good point. I just realized that everything society has "rejected" is due to advancements in technology. Before cars, there were horse-and-buggys, before airplanes there were trains, or at least extensive use of trains.
ReplyDeleteMatthew- But in India, Ghandi was able to change the leadership with out using any violence.
ReplyDeleteKendall- I think if Montag quits his job he will be suspected for keeping books and this would be considered treason in a way. He has spent his whole adult life burning books and he has never had a problem with it.
ReplyDeleteStephen - We are not in denial because technology hepls us so much, but what if our world ends up like this?
ReplyDeleteJonathan- The paper and cover of books are not dangerous, it is the contradicting knowledge written by people that causes others to burn the books
ReplyDeleteInner circle,
ReplyDeleteBeatty seems sure that if Montag reads a book, he will see how wicked it is, and be more resistant to reading more in the future. However, will this work on Montag?
James: The person who told the murderer to kill also gets blamed for the murder. Is this the fate of books?
ReplyDeleteVivian: I agree with you. I do not think that we need to stop using technology all together, but I do think that we have to understand that technology can change people for the worse.
ReplyDeleteIan- Before they rejected segregation, they used African-Americans as slaves for hundreds of years.
ReplyDeleteVivian- Technology helps us so much but it might come to a point that we are so dependent on it. There is no way to tell the future but if that does happen we will be adjusted, there won't be that much of a difference I think.
ReplyDeleteClass: I completely agree with what Abby said and I think that Montag will not think that books are pointless and he will want more. Do you think that this could have happened to some of the other firemen?
ReplyDeleteNick M- That does happen in some situations, but it's very rare, so we can't really rely on that happening.
ReplyDeleteWhitney- I think the fireman are more intelligent because Captain Beatty has said quotes the other fireman has never heard before, and compared with Mildred so far in the book, he knows how to speak intellectually.
ReplyDeleteNick M.,
ReplyDeleteThat is true, but not very common.
Inner Circle- I think that if the government controls education completly, then they can control what people think and dont think. In a way, thats kind of controlling the actual people.
ReplyDeleteMatthew- I do not think that it will work on Mantaq because he is more like Clarrise than anyone else. He will appriecate the books and then he will be more against burning the books.
ReplyDeleteSage- That's a good point, but he has now discovered he no longer enjoys burning books. Yes, he might be shunned, but I do not think that will stop him from discontinuing to burn books when he has discovered what is written in the books he burns.
ReplyDeleteMatthew - Montag already reads books but has seen what happens to people who hide books. He is the person who will challenge the system and will probably continue reading books.
ReplyDeleteClass- A lot of people seem to be going back to saying that technology will be our downfall and if we don't stop the growth of technology this is what will happen. What suggests the fact that this will ever happen?
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteYes, and they may have already been silenced by the government. We saw Clarrise vanish, and nobody even noticed. This could happen to other firemen that speak out.
John: I think that is a possibilty for sure, but I see more of a tragic ending. I feel like Montag will become like the old lady and will fall in love with the books. Which later he will have to pay for.
ReplyDeleteMatthew- I don't think this will work on Montag because he had already started to question the world he lives in. Montag is a different person that everyone thinks will think the same. They are underestimating him.
ReplyDeleteClass- Why do you think that up until Montag met Clarisse he was completely content with burning the books? He had no problem with it. He also never thought about keeping the books. Explain?
ReplyDeleteVivian- we'll continue to justify our technology obsession until it gets out of hand, and then it may suck us into it forever.
ReplyDeleteJohn--I think it is possible other firefighters will challenge the system like Montag after reading books, but unlikely. The only reason Montag thinks anything of the books is because of Clarisse's influence, and there don't seem to be many people like her in society.
ReplyDeleteAvery- We are spending more and more time using computers and other forms of technology, and we bocome attached to it, whether we want it or not, and whether we realize it or not.
ReplyDeleteJonathan- Its not the idea that should be blamed but the wielder of that idea.
ReplyDeleteAvery- Look at us now. We are all on computers not really listening to what people are talking about.
ReplyDeleteAvery,
ReplyDeleteThere are many stories of how technology has taken over people's lives. There was even a couple that let their baby starve as they played a virtual game with a virtual baby. These stories could be the beginning of a "metamorphisis" for our society. It is sobering.
Class- Is Clarisse really dead? If so, why did the author kill her off so suddenly? What was the point of that?
ReplyDeleteKaryn: Nice point.
ReplyDeleteSage- I think this is because he needed a spark ( Clarisse) to start wondering about things than just accepting them.
ReplyDeleteClass> Is that society really all that different from today? It might shock you, but we had Sedition Acts in WW1, WW2, and the Cold War that prohibited any attempt to speak out against the government- It was a law. We don't know exactly how long it has been going on- the book burning. This country is about to enter war. They can't afford anything like a revolution. Besides, today, people will sue for the worst things- If anything is even remotely controversal, it gets sued and challenged.
ReplyDeleteMitch - The government might seem like they are controlling the actual people, but think of Clarisse and Montag. Like Bradbury said, there is sometimes an oddball or someone who thinks, that the government can't control.
ReplyDeleteAvery: I agree with them that technology will be our downfall. This is possible because computers are starting to be smarter than humans. What happens when we try to control the computers, but they get so intelligent they think for themselves? It's possible because it's so hard for every human to stop thinking about new possiblities in technology.
ReplyDeleteSage- I think that the reason that Montag had no problem with it is because he had not thought about what it meant or what it did. After he talked to Clarisse, he had something to think about and his mind was opened up to a whole new idea.
ReplyDeleteMatthew- Is that a real story?
ReplyDeleteKendall,
ReplyDeleteClarrise may have died. But, before she did, she passed on "the torch" to Montag (like Banquo passed it to his son in Macbeth). This puts more weight on Montag's shoulders.
Sage- i think that Clarisse was a catalyst towards Montag challenging the system. The power was already there, Clarisse just pushed him into action.
ReplyDeleteSage- He had been collecting books for a while. He had around twenty which was appartently a lot for the world he was living in. Also Clarisse was the spark that lit this search for knowledge within Montag. She is the reason he started to question everything.
ReplyDeleteKendall- I think that Clarisse is really, and truly dead. I think the author was just using her to advance the plot, not to really play a major role other than setting thinkgs into motion.
ReplyDeleteKendall-CLarisse is what represented that last virtue of common sense the society has left. Now Montag feels it is his duty to share the lifestyle and ideas she had with the world
ReplyDeleteJames,
ReplyDeleteYes. It wasn't in America, though. I think it was somewhere in Asia.
Class: How else does the government control society besides burning books?
ReplyDeleteKendall- I think that the author kill Clarisse so quickly because it was to show that the responisibility to keep the books alive fell on Montag.
ReplyDeleteVivian:
ReplyDeleteI think we have the willpower to tell ourselves enough is enough with technology.
Class: With all the talk of government going on in the inner circle, what are your views? Do you feel the government is the same sort of national government we have now? Has it changed to a world super power?
ReplyDeleteJames> That is a real story. I saw it on the news about a year ago.
ReplyDeleteKendall - Bradbury killed Clairisse because it gets Montag more curious. Once he can't have her anymore, he has to think on his feet.
ReplyDeleteJack
ReplyDeleteExactly, it was a gradual transition, I think it could go the opposition direction from little to big.
Sage- Montag had no problem with burning books because he never thought about what he was burring, he only became a fireman because that’s what his ancestors had done. Also Montag was obsessed with the trill that fire gave him. Also before Montag meat Clarisse he was keeping books and storing them in his ventilator.
ReplyDeleteNick: You said were going to war. Is this figurative or literall?
ReplyDeleteLauren-
ReplyDeleteBy giving them false information, and limiting the flow of information to the public.
Lauren-The government controls the society by giving them what they want like no significant laws. This makes the public favor them more
ReplyDeleteNick- I did know about sedition and I think that this just shows insecurity within a person, government, any functioning thing. Sedition acts in the government are stuck up leaders who dont like to be called names or have 1 person unhappy in their own false utopia
ReplyDeleteLauren,
ReplyDeleteThey have put out so many electronic stimulants and other unnatural means, such as the TV walls and their reliance on sleeping pills. Even Montag takes one to fall asleep.
Class,
What is the danger of a society reliant on drugs, both chemical and electronic?
CLass- How did Montag get the books in the first place anyway?
ReplyDeletePeople who answered my question- I see your point but aren't there still people who dissent technology, I.E. The Amish?
ReplyDeleteGreg: I agree with you that Clarisse is dead, but I do think she is a major character and represents so much, and only is in a small portion of the book.
ReplyDeleteLauren- The government also controls the people through the use of the Parlor Walls.
ReplyDeleteKendall--I don't think Clarisse is really dead. If she was, how would Montag's wife know? She spends her entire life in the parlor with her Aunts and Uncles. I think it is more likely Clarisse relocated with her family to avoid being tracked. Also, if they move around a lot, they can influence more people. Mildred may have just made this story up to stop her husband from questioning.
ReplyDeleteNick- I think it is different but the same. It is different because it was a different way to constrict citizens. It is the same because our government has constricted us but just in different ways. It seems normal in our society while it seems normal for their society too.
ReplyDeleteAvery: Of course Government is a super power! But only the Government can choose whether it's a hero or a villain...
ReplyDeleteStephen- That may be true for you and me, but not everyone has willpower. Some people just can't stop what they are doing, which is how people get addicting to anything, even technology.
ReplyDeleteSean,
ReplyDeleteIf Captain Beatty took the books from Montag, he would make himself an enemy. Montag has to do this on his own if Beatty wants a chance of Montag's return.
Kendall:
ReplyDeleteThe author killed Clarrisse because the book is about him challenging the system. She provides the spark to the kerosene, but the book is not about her adventures with Montag.
Karyn- Oh that’s right I had forgotten about that thank you for reminding me.
ReplyDeleteJames- He would keep on and hide it instead of burning it, just as we saw he went to the house of the old woman.
ReplyDeleteJohnny> No, the society in the book. It was heard over the radio while Montag was playing cards with the firemen
ReplyDeleteClass- knowledge is the spark that lights up Montag, before he was just bland "kerosene", but with knowledge he becomes a fire of thoughts.
ReplyDeleteNicholas S
ReplyDeleteI think you have a great idea, especially about the whole suing craze. It seems like anything in this world is a little uncomfortable, it's somebody's fault and it's never you. So someone has to make it all better for you.
Ross- You should bring up a topic on what the government does to spread their opinion and how it favors the public
ReplyDeleteMatthew: It creates an easily controlled society where no one can truely think for themselves. There is no TRUE freedom.
ReplyDeleteAvery- There will always be protestors. Look at Clairesse and her family. They talk to each other and use little to no technology. But the Amish are a minority and the world will be taken over by technology first before we all become Amish.
ReplyDeleteMatthew - A society reliant on sleeping pills forgets how to fall asleep. A society reliant on facebook will forget how to talk to people. We won't know how to do anything for ourselves anymore.
ReplyDeleteJack: People are also addicted to making new technology. That can be even more dangerous.
ReplyDeleteOuter and inner circle,
ReplyDeleteThe topic of summarizing books and classic novels was discussed in the book. In summarizing these books, the real content is lost, which can be the best part of reading them. This is like in the movie Cars, where the people (or cars) have become caught up in the end result, rather than the journey.
Megan- Remember how Mildred said that she liked to drive around really fast, well it could have been Mildred that actually killed Clarisse. Since Clarisse died by getting run over by a car, Mildred could have gotten jealous be Montag constantly thinking about Clarisse and not his own wife.
ReplyDeleteStephen - I love how you said Clarisse is the spark to the kerosene. She is like the leader of a future rebellion. If Clarisse is the spark, who fuels the fire?
ReplyDeleteJames- Your such a poet. Thats a eally good analogy considering before the books he lived a life with nothing besides the same motions everyday with the same cycle
ReplyDeleteClass--What are some of the defining characteristics of Montag? How could they help him challenge the system?
ReplyDeleteJohnny- Yes but how often do you think, why did the government do that!, and realized they had in a way just limited your freedoms a little or when a new piece of technology comes out and you think, i NEED that when in fact you really don't you just want to have the newest and coolest gadget?
ReplyDeleteJack:
ReplyDeletePeople who get to power, glory, and wealth have willpower to do the things they don't want. The most powerful people are the ones who can do what they don't want to but endure the discomfort. The people who get to enough power to do this would have the willpower.
The government is sort of socialist, where the people are in power and anybody that oposes them has little say
ReplyDeleteMatthew C.- A society that is reliant on drugs could potentially have many problems. Once they become dependent on the drugs, the people will find it extremely difficult to live without them. Drugs also create many problems. Today, we are very reliant on drugs, and it has been suggested that the drugs we use have caused serious health issues, such as autism and severe allergies. These health issues did not exist in such a serious state until recently.
ReplyDeleteJustin- That is true because some couples dont talk to their girlfriend/boyfriend they just text.
ReplyDelete