Chad- I think he wants the reader to develope their own setting in their mind. I get the idea that is is set where everything is dark, its cloudy and gray outside, everyone is depressed.
Chad- I think that he doesn't develop the setting so much because it's not a super important role in the story. everything is too the same I'm guessing...
Maria- They really aren't suicides, they are just attempted suicides. I do think that the people who do attempt this have seen the wrong in this world and have the idea that any place would be better than here.
Maria- I feel like the people are starting to realize that they aren't happy. Just like how Montag realized he didn't know the people that were coming into his house.
Maria - It has to do with the whole distopia concept. All of this anger and frustration builds up and teenagers are most prone to exploding and feeling the need to get out of the system. Thus the need to kill themselves.
Maria- It seems like where they are living is very depressing. Montag seems so depressed all the time, I was wondering if he was going to commit suicide soon. Maybe people think the world is so boring it isn't worth living for?
Brooke- That is an interesting idea. Now that I think about it, he does use the mood a lot in the book, so maybe he wants to set the setting through the mood.
maddie- The hound is some sort of dog for the firemen, that helps them start the fires or goes to get food. That's what it sounded like to me. As for the year, your guess is as good as mine. I would think that it is more in the future, though.
Maddie- The hound is this robot that works at the firehouse, I think. I dont know what year it is, but it seems like it is sometime in the future because of the advanced technology.
Victoria- It wouldn't make a difference though so why do it. You aren't making a statement... so why do it in the first place. Then you're just the same as everyone else...
Class- Wen Montag looked up the orgins of firemen he discovered that Benjamin Franklin was comissioned to burn banned english texts. We know this is not true. How much work do you think the givernment put into censoring society.
maria- how is the setting not important in a book. setting describes everything and provides a base for the story to be created from. i agree with brooke, where the author left room for imagination to create its own setting
Brooke- I agree. I think that the author wants the reader to imagine what they think the setting looks like. I got the idea that the setting was also dark and not very happy.
Savannah - Clarissa is almost a subconcious voice to Montag. He hasn't stopped and looked at where his life is going until Clarissa pointed out that he may be unhappy.
Class- On page 9-10 it says that clarissa's uncle was arrested for being a pedestrian. Does this relate to the short-story we read by Bradbury THE PEDESTRIAN?
Savannah- I think that Clarisse is changing Montag and kind of showing him the old ways. At the end of our reading when they were burning the womans books Montag stole one of the books. He is learning from her and she is showing him that there are more important things to life and that this is not the way scicoety should be.
Dom- The government I think is trying to render people's ability to think useless. Literature is a great source of knowledge and a great tool to think with, so they may be simply stripping that from people.
Savannah- Clarisse was kind of inspring to Montag because they met late at night and she told him about that fires used to be put out instead of being made.
Olivia- thats what i thought. Being a pedestrian is walking around...so somehow it is considered illegal. i would also like to point out that her name is Clarisse...
Class- remember to proofread your responses; you are writing in a way that indicates you aren't taking the time to proofread. Also, remember to participate in the inner circle.
Olivia- I think that pedrestrian was one of our SAT words and it was the title of that story because it means someone who like breaks the law or challenges the system. I thinkit relates in a way but it is more the meaning of the word.
Maggie- to the government, I think their town is a Utopia, but to the citizens it is a distopia. People are depressed, killing themselves, but the government doesn't notice and carries on with how they are ruling.
Maddie and Victoria - I think your right. I think Montag is starting to question everything thanks to her and he is starting to realize that his life doesn't feel right.
Brooke-They haven't explained why the books are being burned yet. The government might be censoring all this information, through the burning of books, to limit imagination and the chance of rebellion, which is why the girl is being sent to counseling and such.
olivia- that is exactly what I thought. Both were written by the same author, so was it a foretelling? Maggie- I think that the society in 451 is more of a distopia. The society seems all nice, but people are dying and it seems like people don't even notice.
Chad- By stripping them of that knowledge they prevent them from getting thoughts of rebellion in their head. When the girl showed up she brought Montag back to reallity and now he has thoughts forming in his head about what is right and wrong.
Maggie I think the society is a dystopia becuase in a eutopia there would be little to no death (beside natural causes) and in Farenheight 451 people are being burned alive along with their books.
Thanks Andrea. Kelly- Do you think that there could really be a revolt? I mean, it would be more likely to happen in 451 than Harrison or the Pedestrian. But could it really happen?
Class- Do you think it's okay for the government to censor history? Do you think it's alright to lie to society about history if they believe it's justified?
Class - In relasionship to what Smith said, do you think that if you take away enough education, can a society really get to this point, or better yet, could we get to this point?
Mrs. Smith- An uneducated populace would be easier to control. Without any knowledge of other societies, and how they operated, there would (conceivably)no dissent within the general public.
Olivia- That is exactly what I thought about when I read that part of the section. The time period must be the same time period as the pedestrian because they got arrested for being a pedestrian in both.
class, if you have an uneducated society, wouldnt you think that nobody would be smart enough to revolt? or would they just think thats the only way to live?
Maddie- Maybe book burning is like starting over, they want to get rid of all other ideas, so eventually, only their ideas will be in the minds of people.
Savannah- I think that government shouldn't be allowed to censor history and just be able to tell us what happened. I don't think that there is any reason why that action would be justified. You can't change history, only how people percieve it, and the actions the government takes in Farenheit 451 is too far.
Maddie- burning the books symbolizes curiosity and intelligence. By burning the books people are forced to only learn from what the government will let them hear. I think the government sees it as necessary to control the people. If the people don't know enough to challenge them then they can't challenge them. Books open up answers and inspiration to challenge anything and everything.
brooke-your point, that government does not feel the same about society as the people do,t can not only been seen in this book but also all over the world. many people can eiter see there goverment as a great thing or a controlling abusive power that has no clue how life is like.
Savannah- I dont believe that the government should have power to lie about the past because how is that justified? When you dont know how things were or how things could be how can you cause change?
Noah- i think that was the government's plan. Like in North Korea, the people are undereducated so they cant revolt against the system. Its protecting them from the bad things that the government is doing.
Noah- Thats a good question, I think eventually they will think that is the only way to live. Since there is no place out there where people can get the idea to revolt, no one will have a creative enough mind to think of the idea.
Class- We are the future, but this is the present. If we keep looking to far into the future, we will miss what's going on right now, much like Montag was not realizing the little beauties of life, like the grass.
Noah- In an uneducated society, people would be less likely to revolt because they wouldn't get far enough into a thought process to make a legitimate plan to overthrow the government. This may be why the government wants everyone to be uneducated and to just be oblivious to what has happened and what could happened. I think that this is very apparent in Farenheit 451.
Maddie- The burning of the books symbolizes how the government wants to get rid of everyone else's ideas, so that their ideas only remain. by burning the books, theres no way the ideas can come back, so it guarantees the people won't know what is happening.
Noah- I don't think it would be helpful to have an educated society because then we would be smarter in the past instead if the future. We wouldn't progress in technology or get out of the tough economic times. Then the government will be less powerful because they are just as educated as the rest of the citizens.
Caleb-You can "change" history, or at least how the populous sees it. There is a picture of Tiemann Square with a crowd of people on the sides. This picture is a fake, since there was no crowd actually at the scene. This shows how the government can actually "change" the past through doubt.
Class- I found it interesting that it seems the entire populus's minds are being erased. The young girl mentioned dew and nobody notices billboards anymore, can a simple act of burning books wipe out most thought processes?
Mackenzie- I think your point is very good, the only people who are challenging the government in F 451 are the people who knew how life was. You notice that when she talks about how life was, it gives new ideas to Guy and he starts to question the system.
Noah- That is a very good question but i think that even if we had an educated society we would still be able to revolt if there was a big problem in Harrison Bergeron, but he had a strong enough morale that could still chalenge the system
Maria- I think that the situation might have to get worse before it gets better. I think that the people have to see that it is not right before anyone will do anything to make a change.
Class- Without history there would be no way to learn from our mistakes. This is what the people in the book don't realize about this society. DO you think that the people today will learn from these satirical books?
Kelly- I bet the government has all the information of the past. Like the book The Giver, they have a "memory keeper" who keeps all the memories of the old world. Maybe they have someone or something like that, so they know not to make the same mistakes again?
Mackenzie - I definitely see your point. But the government believes that this is right and this is what will create an equal society. They wanted to rebuild history to prove to people that this government has worked and will work. It's all lies. So how then, do you draw the line between what the governement can and can't restrict?
Steven - Thats a good point and i agree completely; however we cannot become blinded by the the beauty of the moment and lose sight of the future, we have to keep an eye on trends and patterns so we can avoid problems and be prepared for what is to come.
Steven- I agree we need to focus on our life write now and deal with the future as it comes to us. The future is not set so we can't be ready for this author's prediction of it.
Class- Clarisse and Montag's wife seem to be opposites of each other. Clarisse challenges the system while Montag's wife is buying into it. Does anyone else see that?
Class- How was the government of this book able to 'erase' history and make people think that books were banned even in the 1400s? If they tried to do that now, people would still know that Ben Franklin did NOT burn books.
class If it was the government who burned the books, they did it in order to secure the state of power they are currently in. If people have knowledge, they can do thing they ddn't know they could do.
Anna- Yes it is possible, after the burning of the books, because the populous will blindly follow what the government is telling them, since they have no other source of information. After a while, the minds of society will belong to the government in a way.
Clairissa- People don't aknowledge these books because they're fiction... People think that if something is fictional, it can't possibly apply to real life. If they did, would things be different today?
Aaron- I can see your point, but there is no way to actually change what happened, only how people see what happened or what they think happened. History stays the same until someone goes in a time machine to change it. In Farenheit 451, the government didn't change the government, just how people think it happened, like the sign about Benjamin Franklin in the firehouse.
Anna- Everyone interprets books differently. We all picture the scene, imagine the people, and are basically a part of the story ourselves. By taking away the books, they are taking away little pieces of us.
Maria- I don't think the government is afraid to change, I just think that they think the system works and they don't want to fix someting that isn't broken in their eyes. We use a government based on what was made 200 years ago because it works. We add and take away things as our society advances and evolves, but the basics are still the same.
Class- What was the deal with Montag's wife overdosing? She did not remember it and said that she would never do such a thing. What is no education doing to society and does this have anything to do with no education?
Anna- Not only are they burning books, but when they raided the house they were also burning magazines. Both of these are very large ways that people really become connected with the world around them. Books and magazines both have so many connections to the world around us, so this does wipe out a lot of thought.
Andrea- I assume they put many people in prison or something along the lines of a concentration camps. Mass murder by the government would get rid of the people who knew the truth. My question is: Is it really worth it?
Caleb-That's the point I'm trying to get at, when society begins to doubt, the stronger side will win, like saying Benjamen Franklin started firemen to burn books. And technically, even time machines won't work.
Steven- Good thinking! I think that the common saying, "one step at a time" is a good outlook. The more we focus on the present the more educated and prepared we are for the future.
Maddie- I think they don't have the chance to become their own people and gain their own morals. This creates maybe an emptiness that no one can explain -leaving them to the only answer they are knowledgeable to- suicide.
maddie- That was one of my questions. Why would she overdose on her pills, and then either lie about it or does actually forget? It doesn't make sense to me. I think that maybe she just had no idea that the consequences would be that bad, since a lot of other people had done the same thing.
Noah- I think the government wanted to burn the books because they didn't want the people to discover what went on in the past. Like how Montag was stunned when Clarisse brought up about how firefighters used to put out fires instead of starting them.
Class- I found it interesting that the future showed by the book is so different than what life is like today. Well they say that history repeats itself, so maybe the government looked back on the past and saw some of the flaws with it, which caused them to want to start over and burn books.
Andrea- I think that people were able to erase history by burning the books if the slowly cut off education by ridding the world of all the books so that the next generation wouldn't be able to change things or revolt.
Class - In the book, Montag says that he often had nothing to do when he is at the firehouse. This makes me wonder, when do they get calls and how does the book burning process happen? And who do they get calls from?
Aaron- It is interesting ow you said that government can "change" history by just changing how to think of it. It seems like government could almost brain wash you by telling you what happened but a bit exagerated.
Clairissa- Wouldn't people notice? You can't just wipe out an entire population without somebody finding out. also, does the government aware that they are lying to the people, or do they think its the truth too? and wouldn't the rest of the world find out too?
Kelly- Thats possible, or maybe they had family from the older world, and the information was passed down? I am just thinking that because I would imagine if you knew all the information of the old world, they wouldn't let you stop working for the government unless they had a way for you to forget it all.
Class- connecting to the circle. Do you think Montag's marriage is loveless? How do you think they ended up together? Does this relate to marriages of today at all?
Clarissa- History repeats itself. No matter how we look at it war is war andpeace is peace. The only thing that changes is peoples view on the subject, and how they carry those views out.
Maddie- I think the signifigence of Mantags wife overdoseing is to set in the fact that the people of this society are noticing what is going on around them. They just keep on moving and never stop. And Steven said the comment about the grass not Smith. Sorry.
Maddie- I think that Montag's wife is there to show him the drastic difference between the government's ideas and reality. She helps him realize the government's flaws.
Luke- That is a really interesting idea. I see what you're saying how today is different and it may change, but it takes time and a lot of restricting of public knowledge (i.e. the burning of the books).
Maddie- I think that Montag's wife overdosing is evidence that this society is more of a distopia. The technology is the mask of the society and this proves that technology cannot make a person happy.
Luke- But what about the good things the government had to offer in the past? Wouldn't a balance of the good in the past and new better ideas for the future be better than just starting over?
Savannah- I see Montag's marriage as loveless, and maybe even like what they do in places like India, where they arrange the marriages. I think, if it is an arranged marriage, that the government would be the ones doing that so there would be no violence within the families.
Luke- I noticed that but i think the book was set around our time or in the future because certain people are still chalengeing the system because they have seen education and knowledge recently.
Andrea- That's the thing, if you slowly take away the education then there will be less people noticing everything. That's the problem with tv nowadays; most people don't watch the news and are just transfixed with their own little worlds.
Savannah- Yes I do think it is loveless. I am not sure how it happened but I also think it does relate to today. Our society is drastically changing. Just think about the divorce rate and the amount of people that meet online. I think that Montag loves his wife but it is not a true love and he is not truly happy.
Caleb that's an interesting thought, if the government is controlling everything including marriage -the society has completely stripped people of identity.
Brooke- I think tha is a good question. Why didn't she remember overdosing? I think that it is because in this society you are taught not to have feelings almost and you are told that this a perfect society so she shouldnt be feeling this way.
Brooke- I think that Montag's wife was ashamed like you said and she wanted to forget that she even tried to end her life. I think that she remembered that she overdosed but that was something she wanted to forget.
Brooke- I'm sure that the jobs are assigned to them. If the government let the people choose then it would get rid of what they are trying to achieve. Total control.
Brooke- That's an interesting idea, since all of the firemen looked alike. If you look at any job, you have all these different appearences and personalities, while all the men at the firehouse are basically identical.
Class- Do you think that the number 451 has any significance? They mention it many times being inscribed on his helmet and his jacket. Do we know what it could mean?
Brooke- I think that Montag was assigned his job, since everything else was controlled by the government. It seems like the government has taken away a lot of free will, and the people are so uneducated and so oblivious to this fact that no one has even noticed.
Natale - Yes, completely. The way they talked about her when she was being cleaned out made her sound like a robot. I had never thought of it that way before, good point.
Maggie- In the book the books are burned by them spraying the kerosene and then lighting it up. When they go and burn the lady's house they are alerted by her neighbor that there may be books in the attic. This is interesting because it seems as though the general public is supportive of this idea.
maddie - I agree. I feel like it's parallel to our society and the fact the marriage is based on other things.(money, status, etc) and people have different values of love, which in the book, shows how extreme it could get.
Savannah- I think that Montag's marriage was arranged and pretty loveless because the government already controls the education, so why couldn't they control the marriages too?
Brooke- If Montag chose this job I think he did it blindly because he doesnt know that this is worng. If this job was chosen it was because he had certain characteristics because Montag noticed that all the fireman look the same.
Brooke- I think that she doesnt remember becuase she is going to fast in life. She might be ashamed but weather or not she realizes that she is ashamed or does she just not realize whats going on?
Maddie- Maybe that is the degree of the fire. Like the fire they burn the books with is 451 degrees fahrenheit? or maybe there are 451 firemen in the society?
Aaron- I think that technology has taken over the world in this book. It's almost like the "government" isn't just limited to people, but now it is half-technology and computers making decisions and setting the actual course for humanity. Going back to Hannah's idea on the goodness in the past, i think that it's slowly being eroded away by the technology of the future because it is forcing it's own ideas on people. I think that this all goes down to people being afraid of themselves and what they're capable of.
Janie- Nearly dying and having your stomach pumped is a very traumatic experience, and shock may cause you to forget some things. That is probably why his wife can't remember her attempted suicide.
Mackenzie-She was subjected to contrasedatives, which are pretty powerful, if she was that hungry. Those, to an old woman at 30, might affect memory too, along with the pills she OD'ed on.
Brooke- Well going back to what Andrea asked in the very begining of the blog i don't know if it was chosen for him because he seemed to enjoying burning books- until clarisse came along
Class- So far, people have tried to descibe the settin how they saw it, and so far everyone has automatically placed it in the far future. what if this is the beginning of the government changing everything. Maybe the havent reached a perfect state yet.
Dominic - You brought up fear in the inner circle, and I think thats a very good point. Fear is used as a primary power in Fahrenheit 451. In a way it is also used today, you know not to murder someone because the consequence is a life in prison. Is this a good way for goverment to operate?
Maria- The government doesn't want to do everything because they know they have a lot of people, and that they need them to do some work, even if it isn't that important. I think that if the government took away the jobs, people would start to realize that the government was taking too much control.
Maria- Think about it for a minute. If the people don't have jobs, what are they going to do with all that free time? Eventually this will lead to destruction. And if we are completely replaced by machines of a sort then there is no point for a human race at all.
Mackenzie- Yeah, i think the job was chosen for him, like Clarise said, he doen't seem like the fireman type. Maybe he was chosen because he looked like one. He doesn't seem to like the job very much.
Mackenzie- I think Clarisse has the ideas that can spark what it takes. I think Montag is the one that could take the action and set forth. Clarisse is confident and content with her life.She doesn't need to challenge anything to be happy. But in Montag not being truly happy he is the one that will set forth the challenge using the truths he gains from Clarisse.
Mackenzie- I think Montag has that capability, but not Clarisse. Clarisse is not a part of the system so it would be far to difficult for her. Montag however, he has a good setup in order to challenge the system.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteClass- Why does the author not develop the setting?
ReplyDeleteclass- Is Montag a pyromaniac??
ReplyDeleteClass- Why are there so many suicides? That was my main question...
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteHow is the government censoring peoples thoughts.
Chad- I think that the author wants to leave some mystery in the setting, and to let you think about what this future world will look like.
ReplyDeletechad0- i had the same question. I have no idea when or where this book is set!
ReplyDeleteChad- I think he wants the reader to develope their own setting in their mind. I get the idea that is is set where everything is dark, its cloudy and gray outside, everyone is depressed.
ReplyDeleteChad- I think that he doesn't develop the setting so much because it's not a super important role in the story. everything is too the same I'm guessing...
ReplyDeleteAndrea-
ReplyDeleteNope, he's a fireman
Andrea-Well, he is a fireman. His lighter is part of his job. I'm unsure if he likes his job that much to be a pyro.
ReplyDeleteAndrea-
ReplyDeleteI have a feeling thats how he got into the firemans business, but now he is questioning his position in the world.
maria
ReplyDeleteif you were controled, and living a life that you didnt want to live wouldyou still live tht life?
Chad-
ReplyDeletei think that the author doesn't develop the setting because it is not as relavant as the other text
Maria- They really aren't suicides, they are just attempted suicides. I do think that the people who do attempt this have seen the wrong in this world and have the idea that any place would be better than here.
ReplyDeleteMaria- I feel like the people are starting to realize that they aren't happy. Just like how Montag realized he didn't know the people that were coming into his house.
ReplyDeleteClass- What is the hound and what year is it?
ReplyDeleteclass- What effect do you think Clarisse had on Montag?
ReplyDeleteMaria - It has to do with the whole distopia concept. All of this anger and frustration builds up and teenagers are most prone to exploding and feeling the need to get out of the system. Thus the need to kill themselves.
ReplyDeleteDom- Pretty obviously, through the burning of books. They have school, but that is teaching people what the government wants to teach.
ReplyDeleteNoah- Probably not... but that doesn't mean I would kill myself. I'd try to change things.
ReplyDeletemaddie, i dont think it has told us the year yet has it?
ReplyDeleteMaria- It seems like where they are living is very depressing. Montag seems so depressed all the time, I was wondering if he was going to commit suicide soon. Maybe people think the world is so boring it isn't worth living for?
ReplyDeleteMaddie- the hound is a machine that is "kept" in the firehouse. you can set it so he senses your chemicals and will go after you
ReplyDeleteDom- I think that the government doesn't want people to refer back to the past like the girl did to Montag about how fires used to be put out.
ReplyDeleteBrooke- That is an interesting idea. Now that I think about it, he does use the mood a lot in the book, so maybe he wants to set the setting through the mood.
ReplyDeleteMaddie-The hound is basically a robot that is programmed, through chemicals, to attack or capture.
ReplyDeletemaddie- The hound is some sort of dog for the firemen, that helps them start the fires or goes to get food. That's what it sounded like to me. As for the year, your guess is as good as mine. I would think that it is more in the future, though.
ReplyDeleteMaria- BUt how would you change things? would they allow you to change anything? I feel like you would be severly punished.
ReplyDeleteMaddie- The hound is this robot that works at the firehouse, I think. I dont know what year it is, but it seems like it is sometime in the future because of the advanced technology.
ReplyDeleteVictoria- It wouldn't make a difference though so why do it. You aren't making a statement... so why do it in the first place. Then you're just the same as everyone else...
ReplyDeletemaria
ReplyDeleteobviously these people didnt feel that way. but what if change wasnt an option because of how powerful the leadership was?
Aaron- have they explained why they are burning the books? Why did they choose to burn the books and teach only what the government wants?
ReplyDeleteClass- what do you think about all the firemen looking alike?
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteWen Montag looked up the orgins of firemen he discovered that Benjamin Franklin was comissioned to burn banned english texts. We know this is not true. How much work do you think the givernment put into censoring society.
Maria- i think the suicides are a big deal because the people are realizing how unhappy they are and that they aren't able to do anything about it.
ReplyDeletemaria- how is the setting not important in a book. setting describes everything and provides a base for the story to be created from. i agree with brooke, where the author left room for imagination to create its own setting
ReplyDeleteclass- I would guess that this is far enough in the future that this utopia can be set up and then be on the verge of failure...
ReplyDeleteBrooke- I agree. I think that the author wants the reader to imagine what they think the setting looks like. I got the idea that the setting was also dark and not very happy.
ReplyDeleteClass - How long did it take? Is the town in Fahrenheit 451 a eutopia or distopia?
ReplyDeleteSavannah - Clarissa is almost a subconcious voice to Montag. He hasn't stopped and looked at where his life is going until Clarissa pointed out that he may be unhappy.
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteOn page 9-10 it says that clarissa's uncle was arrested for being a pedestrian. Does this relate to the short-story we read by Bradbury THE PEDESTRIAN?
Clairissa- I'm not exactly sure how, I didn't exactly think that far into it.
ReplyDeleteSavannah- I think that Clarisse is changing Montag and kind of showing him the old ways. At the end of our reading when they were burning the womans books Montag stole one of the books. He is learning from her and she is showing him that there are more important things to life and that this is not the way scicoety should be.
ReplyDeleteDom- The government I think is trying to render people's ability to think useless. Literature is a great source of knowledge and a great tool to think with, so they may be simply stripping that from people.
ReplyDeleteAaron-
ReplyDeleteAnd if they teach the kids what they want to teach them they have complete control over their lives.
Class-
ReplyDeleteBecause their community is dysutopian, will there will most likely be a revolt?
andrea,
ReplyDeletegood point because it must take a while to set up a government like this.
Class- Does anyone know the reason for burning books? Is it how the government consors information?
ReplyDeleteSavannah- Clarisse was kind of inspring to Montag because they met late at night and she told him about that fires used to be put out instead of being made.
ReplyDeleteOlivia- MAYBE THE PEDESTRIAN WAS ABOUT HER UNCLE!
ReplyDeleteOlivia- thats what i thought. Being a pedestrian is walking around...so somehow it is considered illegal. i would also like to point out that her name is Clarisse...
ReplyDeleteClass- remember to proofread your responses; you are writing in a way that indicates you aren't taking the time to proofread. Also, remember to participate in the inner circle.
ReplyDeleteOlivia- I think that pedrestrian was one of our SAT words and it was the title of that story because it means someone who like breaks the law or challenges the system. I thinkit relates in a way but it is more the meaning of the word.
ReplyDeleteMaggie- to the government, I think their town is a Utopia, but to the citizens it is a distopia. People are depressed, killing themselves, but the government doesn't notice and carries on with how they are ruling.
ReplyDeleteMaddie and Victoria - I think your right. I think Montag is starting to question everything thanks to her and he is starting to realize that his life doesn't feel right.
ReplyDeleteBrooke-They haven't explained why the books are being burned yet. The government might be censoring all this information, through the burning of books, to limit imagination and the chance of rebellion, which is why the girl is being sent to counseling and such.
ReplyDeleteolivia- that is exactly what I thought. Both were written by the same author, so was it a foretelling?
ReplyDeleteMaggie- I think that the society in 451 is more of a distopia. The society seems all nice, but people are dying and it seems like people don't even notice.
kelly
ReplyDeleteyes usually a system that is wrong goes bad and people notice. people get mad usually anger take them over and they dont think rationally
Maddie- Thats a really good observation!!!
ReplyDeleteMackenzie-
ReplyDeleteI believe the "book" is a metaphor for common sense or reality in this future community.
Chad-
ReplyDeleteBy stripping them of that knowledge they prevent them from getting thoughts of rebellion in their head. When the girl showed up she brought Montag back to reallity and now he has thoughts forming in his head about what is right and wrong.
Maggie
ReplyDeleteI think the society is a dystopia becuase in a eutopia there would be little to no death (beside natural causes) and in Farenheight 451 people are being burned alive along with their books.
Savannah- I think they mentioned in the book that the firefighters were choosen. This is likely another way they are controlling things.
ReplyDeleteOlivia- maybe the Pedestrian was sort of like a lead-up to this book, or he borrowed similar settings for each of the stories
ReplyDeleteAaron, thats a really good idea. I never questioned why she went to counciling, but that might be why...
ReplyDeleteSavannah- I totally get that. since he met Clarisse, his world is like rocked, and everything he knows is questioned.
ReplyDeleteThanks Andrea.
ReplyDeleteKelly- Do you think that there could really be a revolt? I mean, it would be more likely to happen in 451 than Harrison or the Pedestrian. But could it really happen?
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ReplyDeleteMaggie- i think its an attempt at a utipia and it just an epic fail
ReplyDeleteClass- What do you think book burning symbolizes? Why is it necessary to burn them?
ReplyDeleteClass- Do you think it's okay for the government to censor history? Do you think it's alright to lie to society about history if they believe it's justified?
ReplyDeleteClass - In relasionship to what Smith said, do you think that if you take away enough education, can a society really get to this point, or better yet, could we get to this point?
ReplyDeleteMrs. Smith-
ReplyDeleteAn uneducated populace would be easier to control. Without any knowledge of other societies, and how they operated, there would (conceivably)no dissent within the general public.
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ReplyDeleteOlivia- That is exactly what I thought about when I read that part of the section. The time period must be the same time period as the pedestrian because they got arrested for being a pedestrian in both.
ReplyDeletemaddie- I think they want to get rid of the past and the knowledge so no one has more than anyone else.
ReplyDeleteclass, if you have an uneducated society, wouldnt you think that nobody would be smart enough to revolt? or would they just think thats the only way to live?
ReplyDeleteMaddie- Maybe book burning is like starting over, they want to get rid of all other ideas, so eventually, only their ideas will be in the minds of people.
ReplyDeleteMaddie
ReplyDeleteBurning books is symoblic to burning the past and attempting to start a new era.
Savannah- I think that government shouldn't be allowed to censor history and just be able to tell us what happened. I don't think that there is any reason why that action would be justified. You can't change history, only how people percieve it, and the actions the government takes in Farenheit 451 is too far.
ReplyDeleteMaddie- burning the books symbolizes curiosity and intelligence. By burning the books people are forced to only learn from what the government will let them hear. I think the government sees it as necessary to control the people. If the people don't know enough to challenge them then they can't challenge them. Books open up answers and inspiration to challenge anything and everything.
ReplyDeleteNatalie-Well, that may be true if this government was after an equal society. There has been no information in order to make that assumption.
ReplyDeletePROOFREAD! Enough with the non-caps, non-proofread work. Take the time to publish your best work; what kind of online profile do you want?
ReplyDeletebrooke-your point, that government does not feel the same about society as the people do,t can not only been seen in this book but also all over the world. many people can eiter see there goverment as a great thing or a controlling abusive power that has no clue how life is like.
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteIf you have an uneducated society, where is the government getting their education to hold all the power?
Savannah- I dont believe that the government should have power to lie about the past because how is that justified? When you dont know how things were or how things could be how can you cause change?
ReplyDeleteCaleb- I agree. I think that people need to learn from the past. If there is a false past then people can't learn how to create a better future.
ReplyDeleteNoah- i think that was the government's plan. Like in North Korea, the people are undereducated so they cant revolt against the system. Its protecting them from the bad things that the government is doing.
ReplyDeleteNoah- Thats a good question, I think eventually they will think that is the only way to live. Since there is no place out there where people can get the idea to revolt, no one will have a creative enough mind to think of the idea.
ReplyDeleteSteven- i completely agree. They are afraid of the consequecuences that comes with knowledge. but why????
ReplyDeleteClass- Do you think that the school situation has to get really bad before it gets better? Do people have to see us suffer before there is cange?
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteWe are the future, but this is the present. If we keep looking to far into the future, we will miss what's going on right now, much like Montag was not realizing the little beauties of life, like the grass.
Noah- In an uneducated society, people would be less likely to revolt because they wouldn't get far enough into a thought process to make a legitimate plan to overthrow the government. This may be why the government wants everyone to be uneducated and to just be oblivious to what has happened and what could happened. I think that this is very apparent in Farenheit 451.
ReplyDeleteMaddie- The burning of the books symbolizes how the government wants to get rid of everyone else's ideas, so that their ideas only remain. by burning the books, theres no way the ideas can come back, so it guarantees the people won't know what is happening.
ReplyDeleteKelly- That is a great point, why should the government have all the power? How did they get this power?
ReplyDeleteNoah- I don't think it would be helpful to have an educated society because then we would be smarter in the past instead if the future. We wouldn't progress in technology or get out of the tough economic times. Then the government will be less powerful because they are just as educated as the rest of the citizens.
ReplyDeleteCaleb-You can "change" history, or at least how the populous sees it. There is a picture of Tiemann Square with a crowd of people on the sides. This picture is a fake, since there was no crowd actually at the scene. This shows how the government can actually "change" the past through doubt.
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteI found it interesting that it seems the entire populus's minds are being erased. The young girl mentioned dew and nobody notices billboards anymore, can a simple act of burning books wipe out most thought processes?
Mackenzie-
ReplyDeleteI think your point is very good, the only people who are challenging the government in F 451 are the people who knew how life was. You notice that when she talks about how life was, it gives new ideas to Guy and he starts to question the system.
Natalie- The government is afraid of change, think about it. Our society runs on the fundamentals set 200 years ago...
ReplyDeleteNoah-
ReplyDeleteThat is a very good question but i think that even if we had an educated society we would still be able to revolt if there was a big problem in Harrison Bergeron, but he had a strong enough morale that could still chalenge the system
Maria- I think that the situation might have to get worse before it gets better. I think that the people have to see that it is not right before anyone will do anything to make a change.
ReplyDeleteClass- Without history there would be no way to learn from our mistakes. This is what the people in the book don't realize about this society. DO you think that the people today will learn from these satirical books?
ReplyDeleteKelly- I bet the government has all the information of the past. Like the book The Giver, they have a "memory keeper" who keeps all the memories of the old world. Maybe they have someone or something like that, so they know not to make the same mistakes again?
ReplyDeleteMackenzie - I definitely see your point. But the government believes that this is right and this is what will create an equal society. They wanted to rebuild history to prove to people that this government has worked and will work. It's all lies. So how then, do you draw the line between what the governement can and can't restrict?
ReplyDeleteSteven - Thats a good point and i agree completely; however we cannot become blinded by the the beauty of the moment and lose sight of the future, we have to keep an eye on trends and patterns so we can avoid problems and be prepared for what is to come.
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of education do you think is really being offered in this society? Without books, how is it conducted?
Steven- I agree we need to focus on our life write now and deal with the future as it comes to us. The future is not set so we can't be ready for this author's prediction of it.
ReplyDeleteClass- Clarisse and Montag's wife seem to be opposites of each other. Clarisse challenges the system while Montag's wife is buying into it. Does anyone else see that?
ReplyDeleteClass- How was the government of this book able to 'erase' history and make people think that books were banned even in the 1400s? If they tried to do that now, people would still know that Ben Franklin did NOT burn books.
ReplyDeleteclass
ReplyDeleteIf it was the government who burned the books, they did it in order to secure the state of power they are currently in. If people have knowledge, they can do thing they ddn't know they could do.
Anna- Yes it is possible, after the burning of the books, because the populous will blindly follow what the government is telling them, since they have no other source of information. After a while, the minds of society will belong to the government in a way.
ReplyDeleteBrooke-
ReplyDeleteIs it possible that her uncle used to work for the government, and that is why he knows all about the older world?
Clairissa- People don't aknowledge these books because they're fiction... People think that if something is fictional, it can't possibly apply to real life. If they did, would things be different today?
ReplyDeleteAaron- I can see your point, but there is no way to actually change what happened, only how people see what happened or what they think happened. History stays the same until someone goes in a time machine to change it. In Farenheit 451, the government didn't change the government, just how people think it happened, like the sign about Benjamin Franklin in the firehouse.
ReplyDeleteAnna- Everyone interprets books differently. We all picture the scene, imagine the people, and are basically a part of the story ourselves. By taking away the books, they are taking away little pieces of us.
ReplyDeleteSteven-Through televisions and models. After all, they do have a TV class...
ReplyDeleteMaria- I don't think the government is afraid to change, I just think that they think the system works and they don't want to fix someting that isn't broken in their eyes. We use a government based on what was made 200 years ago because it works. We add and take away things as our society advances and evolves, but the basics are still the same.
ReplyDeleteClass- What was the deal with Montag's wife overdosing? She did not remember it and said that she would never do such a thing. What is no education doing to society and does this have anything to do with no education?
ReplyDeleteMackenzie- I see that completely. She is practically brainwashed by this society whereas Clarisse questions everything.
ReplyDeleteAnna- Not only are they burning books, but when they raided the house they were also burning magazines. Both of these are very large ways that people really become connected with the world around them. Books and magazines both have so many connections to the world around us, so this does wipe out a lot of thought.
ReplyDeleteAndrea- I assume they put many people in prison or something along the lines of a concentration camps. Mass murder by the government would get rid of the people who knew the truth. My question is: Is it really worth it?
ReplyDeleteCaleb-That's the point I'm trying to get at, when society begins to doubt, the stronger side will win, like saying Benjamen Franklin started firemen to burn books. And technically, even time machines won't work.
ReplyDeleteSteven- Good thinking! I think that the common saying, "one step at a time" is a good outlook. The more we focus on the present the more educated and prepared we are for the future.
ReplyDeleteClass- With what Courtney just said about Montag and his wife's "love" relationship, how does that relate to rubbing the dandelion on him?
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ReplyDeleteMaddie- I think they don't have the chance to become their own people and gain their own morals. This creates maybe an emptiness that no one can explain -leaving them to the only answer they are knowledgeable to- suicide.
ReplyDeletemaddie- That was one of my questions. Why would she overdose on her pills, and then either lie about it or does actually forget? It doesn't make sense to me. I think that maybe she just had no idea that the consequences would be that bad, since a lot of other people had done the same thing.
ReplyDeleteNoah- I think the government wanted to burn the books because they didn't want the people to discover what went on in the past. Like how Montag was stunned when Clarisse brought up about how firefighters used to put out fires instead of starting them.
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteI found it interesting that the future showed by the book is so different than what life is like today. Well they say that history repeats itself, so maybe the government looked back on the past and saw some of the flaws with it, which caused them to want to start over and burn books.
Andrea-
ReplyDeleteI think that people were able to erase history by burning the books if the slowly cut off education by ridding the world of all the books so that the next generation wouldn't be able to change things or revolt.
Clarissa- People will learn if people understand the books. Only then will the soceity become better.
ReplyDeleteClass - In the book, Montag says that he often had nothing to do when he is at the firehouse. This makes me wonder, when do they get calls and how does the book burning process happen? And who do they get calls from?
ReplyDeleteAaron- It is interesting ow you said that government can "change" history by just changing how to think of it. It seems like government could almost brain wash you by telling you what happened but a bit exagerated.
ReplyDeleteClairissa- Wouldn't people notice? You can't just wipe out an entire population without somebody finding out. also, does the government aware that they are lying to the people, or do they think its the truth too? and wouldn't the rest of the world find out too?
ReplyDeleteKelly- Thats possible, or maybe they had family from the older world, and the information was passed down? I am just thinking that because I would imagine if you knew all the information of the old world, they wouldn't let you stop working for the government unless they had a way for you to forget it all.
ReplyDeleteClass- connecting to the circle. Do you think Montag's marriage is loveless? How do you think they ended up together? Does this relate to marriages of today at all?
ReplyDeleteClarissa-
ReplyDeleteHistory repeats itself. No matter how we look at it war is war andpeace is peace. The only thing that changes is peoples view on the subject, and how they carry those views out.
Maddie- I think the signifigence of Mantags wife overdoseing is to set in the fact that the people of this society are noticing what is going on around them. They just keep on moving and never stop. And Steven said the comment about the grass not Smith. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteMaddie- I think that Montag's wife is there to show him the drastic difference between the government's ideas and reality. She helps him realize the government's flaws.
ReplyDeleteAndrea: If you cut off education first, then they'll slowly stop progressing, making it easier for them to erase their memories.
ReplyDeleteLuke- That is a really interesting idea. I see what you're saying how today is different and it may change, but it takes time and a lot of restricting of public knowledge (i.e. the burning of the books).
ReplyDeleteSavannah-Maybe his loveless marriage is like his newer view of the government. He is starting to listen to Clarisse and not trust the system as much.
ReplyDeleteBack to Chad at the VERY beginning- MAYBE THERE IS NO SETTING TO DESCRIBE!
ReplyDeleteRachel- Why did Montag's wife not remember that she overdoses though? Was she ashamed of what she did so she pretended it didn't happen?
ReplyDeleteMaddie- I think that Montag's wife overdosing is evidence that this society is more of a distopia. The technology is the mask of the society and this proves that technology cannot make a person happy.
ReplyDeleteLuke- But what about the good things the government had to offer in the past? Wouldn't a balance of the good in the past and new better ideas for the future be better than just starting over?
ReplyDeleteSavannah- I see Montag's marriage as loveless, and maybe even like what they do in places like India, where they arrange the marriages. I think, if it is an arranged marriage, that the government would be the ones doing that so there would be no violence within the families.
ReplyDeleteClass- Is there any reason to believe that Montag's wife isn't human? Robotic?
ReplyDeleteMaria- Woahh..I could hear that from here.
ReplyDeleteMaddie-
ReplyDeleteI think Montag's wife was well aware that she took those pills. But she is in denial and does not want Montag to know she has a problem.
Luke-
ReplyDeleteI noticed that but i think the book was set around our time or in the future because certain people are still chalengeing the system because they have seen education and knowledge recently.
Andrea- That's the thing, if you slowly take away the education then there will be less people noticing everything. That's the problem with tv nowadays; most people don't watch the news and are just transfixed with their own little worlds.
ReplyDeletekelly -I'm confused by what you mean. Are you saying that he hasn't noticed this about his marriage until Clarisse comes around?
ReplyDeleteClass- Why do you think Montag choose to be a fireman? Do you think they choose their jobs or are they assigned them?
ReplyDeleteNatalie- It's very possible, I mean it's not exactly possible to take all the blood out of her.
ReplyDeleteNatalie- If she is robotic, why would she be affected by the pills she swallowed? I am pretty sure she is human....barely.
ReplyDeleteSavannah- Yes I do think it is loveless. I am not sure how it happened but I also think it does relate to today. Our society is drastically changing. Just think about the divorce rate and the amount of people that meet online. I think that Montag loves his wife but it is not a true love and he is not truly happy.
ReplyDeleteCaleb that's an interesting thought, if the government is controlling everything including marriage -the society has completely stripped people of identity.
ReplyDeleteBrooke- I think tha is a good question. Why didn't she remember overdosing? I think that it is because in this society you are taught not to have feelings almost and you are told that this a perfect society so she shouldnt be feeling this way.
ReplyDeleteKelly- I like your idea.
ReplyDeleteMontag's wife- current government
Chlarisse- our government
Brooke- I think that Montag's wife was ashamed like you said and she wanted to forget that she even tried to end her life. I think that she remembered that she overdosed but that was something she wanted to forget.
ReplyDeleteBrooke- I'm sure that the jobs are assigned to them. If the government let the people choose then it would get rid of what they are trying to achieve. Total control.
ReplyDeleteBrooke- That's an interesting idea, since all of the firemen looked alike. If you look at any job, you have all these different appearences and personalities, while all the men at the firehouse are basically identical.
ReplyDeleteSavannah- No, I mean that his marriage is a parallel to his receding trust of government.
ReplyDeleteClass- Do you think that the number 451 has any significance? They mention it many times being inscribed on his helmet and his jacket. Do we know what it could mean?
ReplyDeleteClass - Who do you think started the whole reform of the system? Was it the goverment, or a certain individual, or the people?
ReplyDeleteBrooke- I think that Montag was assigned his job, since everything else was controlled by the government. It seems like the government has taken away a lot of free will, and the people are so uneducated and so oblivious to this fact that no one has even noticed.
ReplyDeleteNatale - Yes, completely. The way they talked about her when she was being cleaned out made her sound like a robot. I had never thought of it that way before, good point.
ReplyDeleteBrooke- I think they choose their own jobs because they are brain washed so far that to us it seems wrong but to them that is all they know.
ReplyDeleteMaggie- In the book the books are burned by them spraying the kerosene and then lighting it up. When they go and burn the lady's house they are alerted by her neighbor that there may be books in the attic. This is interesting because it seems as though the general public is supportive of this idea.
ReplyDeletemaddie - I agree. I feel like it's parallel to our society and the fact the marriage is based on other things.(money, status, etc) and people have different values of love, which in the book, shows how extreme it could get.
ReplyDeleteClarissa- If they were trying to reach total control, then why do the populus even have jobs? Why doesn't the government just do everything?
ReplyDeleteSavannah- I think that Montag's marriage was arranged and pretty loveless because the government already controls the education, so why couldn't they control the marriages too?
ReplyDeleteKelly -got it. That's a very interesting connection. I like it.
ReplyDeleteBrooke- If Montag chose this job I think he did it blindly because he doesnt know that this is worng. If this job was chosen it was because he had certain characteristics because Montag noticed that all the fireman look the same.
ReplyDeleteClass- What would happen if the government had no fear of the people?
ReplyDeleteBrooke- I think that she doesnt remember becuase she is going to fast in life. She might be ashamed but weather or not she realizes that she is ashamed or does she just not realize whats going on?
ReplyDeleteMaddie- Maybe that is the degree of the fire. Like the fire they burn the books with is 451 degrees fahrenheit? or maybe there are 451 firemen in the society?
ReplyDeleteAaron- I think that technology has taken over the world in this book. It's almost like the "government" isn't just limited to people, but now it is half-technology and computers making decisions and setting the actual course for humanity. Going back to Hannah's idea on the goodness in the past, i think that it's slowly being eroded away by the technology of the future because it is forcing it's own ideas on people. I think that this all goes down to people being afraid of themselves and what they're capable of.
ReplyDeleteJanie-
ReplyDeleteNearly dying and having your stomach pumped is a very traumatic experience, and shock may cause you to forget some things. That is probably why his wife can't remember her attempted suicide.
Mackenzie-She was subjected to contrasedatives, which are pretty powerful, if she was that hungry. Those, to an old woman at 30, might affect memory too, along with the pills she OD'ed on.
ReplyDeleteJenna- I agree. I feel like this is a scary possibility of the future.
ReplyDeleteClass- Does Montag have what it takes to challenge this system? Does Clarisse?
ReplyDeleteMaira- Can the the government ever not have a fear of the people? Aren't they always afraid of the people rebelling or the people not being happy?
ReplyDeleteBrooke-
ReplyDeleteWell going back to what Andrea asked in the very begining of the blog i don't know if it was chosen for him because he seemed to enjoying burning books- until clarisse came along
class
ReplyDeletewhat would you do if our government controlled us like this in the up coming years?
Class- So far, people have tried to descibe the settin how they saw it, and so far everyone has automatically placed it in the far future. what if this is the beginning of the government changing everything. Maybe the havent reached a perfect state yet.
ReplyDeleteDominic - You brought up fear in the inner circle, and I think thats a very good point. Fear is used as a primary power in Fahrenheit 451. In a way it is also used today, you know not to murder someone because the consequence is a life in prison. Is this a good way for goverment to operate?
ReplyDeleteMaria- The government doesn't want to do everything because they know they have a lot of people, and that they need them to do some work, even if it isn't that important. I think that if the government took away the jobs, people would start to realize that the government was taking too much control.
ReplyDeleteMaria- Think about it for a minute. If the people don't have jobs, what are they going to do with all that free time? Eventually this will lead to destruction. And if we are completely replaced by machines of a sort then there is no point for a human race at all.
ReplyDeleteLuke- Back from what Dom said, fear is what controls everything.
ReplyDeleteSteven- I never thought of that... good idea.
ReplyDeleteBrooke- You make a good point. It's not possible by any extent, but I'm saying theoretically what would happen?
ReplyDeleteMackenzie- Yeah, i think the job was chosen for him, like Clarise said, he doen't seem like the fireman type. Maybe he was chosen because he looked like one. He doesn't seem to like the job very much.
ReplyDeleteMackenzie- I think Clarisse has the ideas that can spark what it takes. I think Montag is the one that could take the action and set forth. Clarisse is confident and content with her life.She doesn't need to challenge anything to be happy. But in Montag not being truly happy he is the one that will set forth the challenge using the truths he gains from Clarisse.
ReplyDeleteMaddie- 451 is the temperature at which paper burns.
ReplyDeleteMackenzie- I think Montag has that capability, but not Clarisse. Clarisse is not a part of the system so it would be far to difficult for her. Montag however, he has a good setup in order to challenge the system.
ReplyDelete