Aaron- I think that Bradbury planned it to have Clarisse to die, so that Montag could see what was really special to him and life, and the major flaws in the society that he lived in.
Class- How could you wipe anything from the face of the earth with opposition from people. If there are still some people who want books then there will still be people who want to protect them.
Savannah- I don't thin anyone is actually happy, I think that the government is making them think they are happy by setting the standards of what IS happy.
Kelly- Sometimes people come and go after they have taught whatever they needed. I think Clarisse was done giving Montag her knowledge so the character had to go. I wonder if Clarisse intentionally knew how she could influence Montage or if that was just her spirit?
Kelly- that is very interesting to think about. I think that since she is supposedly dead that he really is thinking about her a mourning her even. The things she said really had an impact on him and I think he wanted to talk to her more so now he feels sort of lost.
Savannah- I think that is isn't just happiness that Mildred relies on technology for, I think that her entire life is based on technology. I think that Montag isn't happy because of two things: One is that Clarisse came and changed his way of thinking, and two, that Montag's mind isn't as simplistic and one-tracked as Mildred's.
Kelly I think because of Clarisse's death her ideas influenced Montag more because it represented that her ideas were not allowed in society interesting Montag more.
Maria- Noting that she didn't participate in dangerous things that other teenagers did, it seems like it would be rare to die from an accident in this society. The government probably killed her or she committed suicide.
Maria-I do not think that Clarisse's death was an accident, because it seems that the government would want to get rid of the people who are being different, for fear that they will spark a revolution.
Caleb- that's a good way to think about it. I agree, it has a lot to do with peoples' minds, and the government doesn't seem to realize that everyone thinks differently.
Aaron-I was really sad when Clarisse died, because she was such a happy character, and I grew attached to her. I think Bradbury meant for the reader to grow fond of her before she died. But I was surprised it happened so early in the book.
Brendon- Think of how he assures himself he is in love. Maybe at some point he was and the influence of technology/society pushed them further and further apart.
Maria- i honestly dont think her death was an accident. I think that the goverenment or something or someone knew that that she was thinking differently and influencing other people to think differently, so they decided that she had to be killed so no one would challenge the system
Courtney- I agree with you. Clairese was acting out of the ways of the norm in the society and that needed to be dealt with. They most likely relocated her family to a mental health center.
Class- Why do you think Montag trusted Mildred? if they were forced onto this marrige they why does he want to please her and give her things? is it just to keep her happy or is it to keep her preoccupied?
caleb: it seems like there is almost a cloak over society and why montag isnt happy is he has had the cloak lifted. he has peeked through it and seen how flawed inside it is.
Dominic - You're right, there will still be people who want to protect the books, and those are the people whose houses are getting burned down. I think the author is trying to make you think about whether or not, if majority favors one way, does that make it ok to hurt people who favor against the majority.
Dominic- There probably are people who want to keep books, but there probably aren't enough of them to really make a difference. You have to have enough people, because if there is just a small group then it is easy to dispose of them. Also, a country has to be ready to have a revolution. There are probably people who are wanting to start a revolution, and are getting things ready.
Class- Do you think the government official were as brainwashed as the rest of society, or are they trying to control everyone else by keeping them brainwashed?
Courtney- That is a good point. i think that Clarisse may have brought her death on because she constantly questioned how things were. Mildred said that Clarisse's dad and uncle moved out why do you think that they didn't die if the government might have killed Clarisse? THey were just as much of talkative and think just as much.
Dominic- I think that the books will stretch his thoughts and make him wonder and curious. Basically, I think he will become the person that the government doesn't want.
Class-During their discussion, Captain Beatty talks to Montag about books, censorship, and equality. Are all these things good in a society? At what point do you think they need to be controlled?
Maria- The fact that Clarisse had just moved in and suddenly was supposedly killed, that would not have given people enough time to realize her movement needed action. Unless, Montag himself begins this rebellion; possibly not in direct relation to her death.
Olivia- I think he trusted Mildred because they have been together for that long 10 years. Even though they don't completely love each other, when you are around with someone almost everyday for 10 years yo have to trust eachother.
Savannah- I think that Montag will be looked upon as a traitor, and also suspicioulsy since he just randomly got up and quit. It makes Montag look like someone who is guilty, so the government will probably be watching out for him. It also changes his relationship with his wife, now that he doesn't have a job and that she now knows that he has a bunch of books.
Class- do you see a parallel between people today who have power and not happiness to the people in this society who seem happy but really are just forced to be?
Chris- I wouldn't say that the government officials are brainwashed, but they believe in this cause so much that it is almost like they are brainwashed.
Chris- I think that some of the government officials are brainwashed but not the ones higher up because they have to control everyone else and make sure people don't start to challange the system or break free too far.
Whitney - All these things CAN be good in a society, but if they are the main parts of a society, and they are used in the wrong way, then they can become deadly. I don't think that whatever form of government they have in Fahrenheit 451 has used these aspects appropriatly.
Savannah: I think that everyone in today's society has a reason to be unhappy, but we don't show it because it's a sign of weakness. The people in this book don't really know better than to be happy.
Class- If everyone has this cloud over their eyes, will Montag start to convince other people, including his wife, that this current society is not all that it seems to be?
Courtney- Clairisse was different from everybody else, and in a society of "brainwashed" people that migh seem like a threat to their lives, so she might have been killed by the people instead of by the government.
Maria- I think that it could have been a situation like how neighbors turn eachother in like how the lady who was burned to death was caught because her neighbor turned her in
Chris-I do not think the officials/leaders are brainwashed. It would be hard for them to think up this system, or keep it under control if they were brainwashed to the same level. This goes back to Harrison Bergeron, where they all had handicaps. There has to be someone to give out and facilitate the handicaps. Someone had to make decisions. What do you think?
Whitney- Those things arre good in moderation. If there is too much censorship, then the people are in danger. Books provide a gettaway from the world. They are good, but books are the only thing that is good in large amounts.
Chirs- I think they are all brainwashed to think they live in a great society. But, I do think some people don't agree with it, they are just too uneducated to challange it. They have never heard of challenging the system because books and all other opinions have been burned.
Kelly - I think Montag will continue to research books and eventually speak out against the system. I don't think Mildred will ever join him though because she doesn't seem to have the will to go through with it.
Kelly- That is a great thought. I think that Montag could and probably will try and make people see the major flaws of the society that they live in, and also to start a rebellion to change the society.
kelly- Since Montag has the Why factor implanted in him now, hes questioning the current society. He will probably start with his wife and then move to others.
Andrea- I thought so too towards the end of the first section, but she does agree to read books with Montag, and maybe she will see the truths the government is hiding like Montag.
Kelly- I think that Montag will try to convince Mildred, but won't succeed, like Andrea said, she's too far into this "utopia". As for other people, there stands a great chance he will get arrested.
Chris- I think that the government officials are so worried about people challenging the system because they want to have and be in power. When people challenge the system they risk losing that. Along with power usually comes wealth and happiness.
Andrea - Good point. But what do you think happened to her that got her to this point. Is it just her adapting to the society, or did some specific event make her how she is?
Paul- Well are books ALWAYS good in large amounts? Eventually we have to come back to the real world, we can not always live in another characters' life.
Kelly- I think he will because he told his wife about that he sort of regretted eing a fireman because of what they did to the woman. He also fessed up to the books he has been keeping. He must be interested in them if he would of kept them that long.
Chris- The government is so worried about people challenging the system because if people try challenging the system, those officials could lose their power and position and they would rather not risk eveything by allowing people the information they could use to overthrow the system.
courtney: i disagree.i believe they are brainwashed in a way. they have been raised this way, so this is the only thing they know. its not like brain washing like they took out their memory but they just told lies to kids so that is how they think too.
Savannah- I defiantly see a parallel I think that today with our society changing so drastically that people are not as happy as they used to be. I think that relationships, family, learning, our whole way of life has changed so much that people are putting on a happy face, but deep down the stress is getting to everyone and we are not as happy as we used to be.
Brooke - That's a really good point, because during the 1700s when people heard of the American Revolution, many other countries rebelled, but they hadn't thought that it could be any better before they heard about the Revolution. So if people aren't educated, they won't challenge the system.
Hannah- I think that it is becuase she is so oblivious to everything and it is because they are pretty much strangers and its like no one just asks a stranger why they did what they did
Olivia- Mildred already found one of the books, so I think Montag was sort of forced to show her everything. I think he also needs a figure like Clarisse so he can talk about the society, and he's trying to make his wife see how Clarisse saw.
Paul-I agree with you. I think the same is true of technology. It can be used to do good things, and it is amazing, but too much of it can be harmful. It is so easy to waste lots of time, and money on technology. Plus, using it too much can be bad, because it lessens the need for using your brain. Books are a good gettaway, but if all you do is read, then that becomes your whole life. And there is always the issue of censorship, and which books are ok and which ones aren't.
Maddie- I totally agree! I think Bradbury is trying to show us that by seeking money, power and success people end up not getting fully satisfied. I think people just hide it with a happy face and I think he is foreshadowing what could happen if this continues.
Hannah- Yeah, it does seem like it's about time for something to change. As to say...society has been soaking too long in the kerosene of repression, and Montag will be the lighter to change the world.
Calvin- I think that is a good point. If you teach something to kids and they don't have any other sources to back up the information they are being told that they will believe it.
Outer circle- you need to do a better job proofreading your responses. I am seeeing a lack of punctuation, numerous run on sentences, etc... This is formal writing, not IMing.
Maddie- I agree I think that the society has changed so that poeple are not as happy as they used to be. Why do you think this is happening? Why are people not as happy as they were?
Brendan- I agree with your idea that he will keep the books. I think he kind of sees through all of the things that Beatty told him about the books and Clarrisse may have kind of planted an idea in him that the thoughts that come from books can really be beneficial and definitely a positive.
Hannah- First of all, we don't know that Montag is quitting his job yet, but I think that Mildred isn't concerned because she doesn't care. As long as it doesn't affect her lifestyle, she is good!
Frank - It could be a change in behavior. Look at Montag, ever since Clairese started talking to him about books, Montag conducts himself very different.
Aaron- That thought about Montag being a lighter is very insightful. I think he is a lot more powerful than he knows, but he also is quite alone as far as trust worthy people.
Anna- well I think it kind of relates to loneliness as well. AS the inner circle is saying, he is lonely. He doesn't really have a family, he barely knows his wife and the only person that he seems to connect with is now gone.
Hannah-I think Mildred is just so involved in her whole world that she isn't really paying full attention to Montag, and what him quitting his job would mean. Mildred just wants to watch TV, and take her pills, and she seems almost oblivious to the state she is in. I'm not sure she really thought ahead far enough to realize Montag was going to challenge the system. What do you think makes Montag and Mildred so different?
Janie: The people are getting bored with what they have, as we often do. We get bored so we buy something new. Like Mildred... they had two wall TVs now she wants another. She got it, is getting bored, and wants another again.
Dominic- I think that Bradbury wants the reader to imagine their own future, what it would look like and the new technologies that were in the future. He doesn't want to restrict the reader's imagination by giving them a set boundry of what the future looks like.
Dominic- The setting is vague to create a mood of mystery, and maybe to keep the readers wanting to know more and keep on reading. There might also just not be much to tell.
Dominic- I think in a science fiction, it might be better to be vague in the setting so it gives the reader the ability to use his own imagination to imagine the setting. This makes the story more believable, as it takes place in a setting that you imagine. I don't know, this just an idea.
Frank- I think it is by more knowledge. In the beginning I could assume that Montag reads because he knew authors and book titles that were before our generation. Maybe people watch if their TV isn't on because maybe they can assume people might be reading.
Luke- I can see your point that it might take more planning and organization.But i Think that Montag as a fire fighter has enough authority to plant an idea in peoples minds. I mean people would look at him and wonder why he would be questioning the system.
Maddie- Do you mean in general, or in the book? What I have noticed that is strange though is that people who are poor and don't have much tend to be more happier than people who are really rich and well-off.
Dominic - I think Bradbury's ultimate goal in being so vague about the setting, is to leave that up to you. So you can determine when this is. I think that this is a hyperbole of how much technology is affecting us, and how much our world is changing. However, what is happening in Fahrenheit 451 is dramatic, yet possible, so Bradbury is trying to make you wonder is this happening in 2015 or 3086? Is this in America, or even on Earth? Once you think of all of the possibilities, you begin to understands Bradbury's goals and ideas.
Maddie- That is an interesting question. While there are some people who are clearly happy with their lives, like Mildred, there are people like Montag and Clarisse that aren't really truly happy with how things are going. I think that there is more of a mask of happiness that is covering the ugly truth underneath.
Dom- Lets say you were finally released from a prison cell after three years. You'd be absolutely thrilled, right? But if you were put in that cell for a reason, like murder, something bad is going to happen eventually.
Dominic- I had the exact same question. I think that this may have to do with the amount of thinking going on. If you think about it, the most development of the setting is when Montag is with Clarisse. Maybe as Montag starts thinking more so does the development of the setting.
Maddie- I think people just don't really think about if they are happy or not. For example when Clarisse asked Montag if he was happy he had to think about it and realized that he was not.
Dominic-I think the uncertain setting is purposeful. Maybe Bradbury is trying to get us to focus on the people and what is happening in the society, rather than the extra objects. Although, I do think a more descriptive setting would ADD to the book, not distract from it. It confuses me that we don't know exactly where and when this book is happening. Why do you think he would chose to include the parts he did include? Does that show something about how important they might be to the book?
Caleb: you said early that Montag is so concerned about the one recent book he has gotten. well with the lack of religion, that was brought up in the inner circle, the book could be a bible. maybe that book almost opened his eyes and shows him a new veiw of life.
Chris- No, it isn't possible to completely eradicate religion. With strong beliefs such as religion, the more you try to get rid of it, the more it will be fought for by those that believe in it. Perhaps there are people who believe in some religion, but they are too afraid to show it.
Dominic- The TV walls, to me, symbolize how society has "dumbed down" and how they are not really thinking outside the box. I think that it is more of a mental prison that the government is using to keep the majority of the population in it's place.
Courtney- I don't know if they are necessarily poor they just have a job that doesn't pay much. I am wondering how other people can pay for large things like the parlor walls.
Maria - In slavery in America, education was completely removed from the slaves, yet the slaves still had religion which gave birth to the famous gospel song we have today.
Courtney- Me too! I don't understand about the aunts and uncles. Are they really talking to her? Or is it just TV? And are the whole walls screens? Why would she want to have the fourth wall?
Calvin- Interesting thought, but he hasnt even had much time to know what that book says. They just began reading, how can he already know the be nervous about it? And the Bible is a confusing book, they may not have the knowledge to understand.
class- like Kelly was saying, do you think these people think their happy because that's all they have ever known? I think she said a good point, he was happy until she challenged his thoughts.
Chris: are you saying that we always have something to lean on? In this story, what they "lean on" is tv and technology. So couldn't that replace religion too?
Brendon- I think that the burning of books could create the illusion that everyone is equal becuase then it could be assumed that no one knows more than everyone else, thus on the outside everyone is at the same level
Dominic- I think the walls were created for entertainment or to keep people from thinking they were being deprived of information. An alternative to books that can be regulated.
Class- The inner circle talked about how why had been eliminated from there vocabulary. If you don't ask why you can't challenge the system. Since clarisse asked why, the government killed her.
Aaron- You're right, people won't change their view of you and you still may have an urge to kill, but society has already punished you, there's not much more than can possibly do to you unless you commit another crime
Courtney- Good point, this touches into what the inner circle was saying about how Clarisse is happy. She chose to separate herself from the physical need of "stuff" and looks at the simple things. This society is all about things like tv walls so they cannot see past it as Clarisse does.
Dominic - It is hard to determine, because there hasn't been much mention of the governent. However, if he government did create the parlors, then they would be a great distraction, and keep people from talking about the government, and challenging the system. But at the same time, it is very possible that people jsut kept enlarging the TV screen (like we do now) until the point where it reaches the size of a wall. I have no doubt that in our lifetime there will be TV screens the fill up an entire wall, if not more than one.
Dominice- If this is true, as the book progresses the setting may not neccessarily develop more and more, but if Montag grows his thinking over the book so would the setting.
Hannah- I agree because then they people are limited to stay only in that one room, where the TV is. It makes more people equal then everyone has the TV on the wall.
Class-The inner circle brought up that the kids had school. If all they learn is facts and don't read or discuss because they don't have opinions, Why do you think that they have schools? What do they intend to teach the kids?
Class-I think it is interesting that TV is used as a way to distract or deprive the people in the society in F451, Harrison Bergeron, and The Pedestrian. What could this say about TV? Why is it used so much?
Brendon- Burning the books makes everyone equal because if one certain group of people (like a racec) are offended by a book, it is not there to make them unhappy and make them feel less than others.
anna: maybe he doesnt need to read alot of it. even today people can pick out a bible from a group of books because its different. maybe it's that difference that causes the change in attitude with this book.
Janie- I think that Montag won't necessarily be happier, just that the knowledge will allow him to see past the set boundries that society has set up for him.
Class- Right now, all I can think about is the Matrix. Think about it, society has been repressed and it takes "The One" along with a few others to take down the repression.
Hannah: They have school most likely to keep the kids at bay, or as close to docile as possible, for just a little while. But how long do they even go to school for?
Hannah- I think the schools are just to occupy and slightly brainwash kids. They want them to grow up without their natural curiosity and just listen and work.
Janie- I think that he will never be truly happy with society as it is he will keep wanting more knowledge which I think the government will do something about and he will end up getting in trouble.
Aaron- Once again another good aaron reference. Taking pop culture and making something more of it. Keanu Reaves' character defineately has similarities with Montag's plight.
Class- Do you believe Clarisse's death was an accident?
ReplyDeleteClass, Why do you think Bradbury decided to have Clarisse die?
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteDo you think that since Clarisse was killed, her ideas might have influence Montag more then if she had lived?
Aaron- it's like in LOF, he needed her to die so that greater things could be accomplished.
ReplyDeleteMarie-
ReplyDeleteI don't think her death was an accident, I think the government killed her.
Aaron- I think that Bradbury planned it to have Clarisse to die, so that Montag could see what was really special to him and life, and the major flaws in the society that he lived in.
ReplyDeleteMaria- I never thought of it like that before, but it seems to make sense, since she was "rebelling" by being curious and other stuff.
ReplyDeleteMaria- I doubt it.
ReplyDeleteclass- do you think Mildred relies on technology to make her happy? If so, how come Montag isn't happy?
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteHow could you wipe anything from the face of the earth with opposition from people. If there are still some people who want books then there will still be people who want to protect them.
Kelly/ Chris: why do you think that?
ReplyDeleteMaria-
ReplyDeleteJudging by the behavior of teenagers, and even adults, after the sun goes down, her death was probably not planned, but it wasn't an accident.
Aaron- i think that Bradbury "killed" Clarisse to force Montag to think for himself and shallenge the current way of thinking without on his own
ReplyDeleteSavannah-
ReplyDeleteI don't thin anyone is actually happy, I think that the government is making them think they are happy by setting the standards of what IS happy.
Kelly- Sometimes people come and go after they have taught whatever they needed. I think Clarisse was done giving Montag her knowledge so the character had to go. I wonder if Clarisse intentionally knew how she could influence Montage or if that was just her spirit?
ReplyDeleteMaria-
ReplyDeleteAbsoulutely not. Her "accident" was most likely orchestrated to rid themselves of a "strange one"
Kelly- that is very interesting to think about. I think that since she is supposedly dead that he really is thinking about her a mourning her even. The things she said really had an impact on him and I think he wanted to talk to her more so now he feels sort of lost.
ReplyDeleteSavannah- I think that is isn't just happiness that Mildred relies on technology for, I think that her entire life is based on technology. I think that Montag isn't happy because of two things: One is that Clarisse came and changed his way of thinking, and two, that Montag's mind isn't as simplistic and one-tracked as Mildred's.
ReplyDeleteKelly
ReplyDeleteI think because of Clarisse's death her ideas influenced Montag more because it represented that her ideas were not allowed in society interesting Montag more.
Dom- Some things are too powerful for the people and not enough people want to stop the burning of the books to make a change.
ReplyDeleteMaria- Noting that she didn't participate in dangerous things that other teenagers did, it seems like it would be rare to die from an accident in this society. The government probably killed her or she committed suicide.
ReplyDeleteBrooke-
ReplyDeleteMontag and his wife can't remember because they don't really love each other.
Maria-I do not think that Clarisse's death was an accident, because it seems that the government would want to get rid of the people who are being different, for fear that they will spark a revolution.
ReplyDeleteKelly- Good point.
ReplyDeleteDominic-
ReplyDeleteI agree I think it was set up because they never act like they love each other.
Caleb- that's a good way to think about it. I agree, it has a lot to do with peoples' minds, and the government doesn't seem to realize that everyone thinks differently.
ReplyDeleteJared-
ReplyDeleteI agree with that because it takes a rebel to start a movement
Aaron-
ReplyDeleteYes, but the need for firemen is stil there because some people still want there books.
Aaron-I was really sad when Clarisse died, because she was such a happy character, and I grew attached to her. I think Bradbury meant for the reader to grow fond of her before she died. But I was surprised it happened so early in the book.
ReplyDeleteBrendon-...but they don't remember when they first met.
ReplyDeleteCourtney: But by getting rid of people like her, wouldn't it just cause more rebellion?
ReplyDeleteChris- Thats a good thought. Maybe the government found out about her and set up an "accident" to kill her.
ReplyDeleteBrendon- Think of how he assures himself he is in love. Maybe at some point he was and the influence of technology/society pushed them further and further apart.
ReplyDeleteMaria- i honestly dont think her death was an accident. I think that the goverenment or something or someone knew that that she was thinking differently and influencing other people to think differently, so they decided that she had to be killed so no one would challenge the system
ReplyDeleteCourtney- I agree with you. Clairese was acting out of the ways of the norm in the society and that needed to be dealt with. They most likely relocated her family to a mental health center.
ReplyDeleteDom- Yes, emphasis on SOME, like I said, there are still people that want books, just not enough to make a change.
ReplyDeleteMaria-
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely not, I think of it like this how much has the world changed from 50 years ago. In fact the world is better now then back then.
Class-
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think Montag trusted Mildred? if they were forced onto this marrige they why does he want to please her and give her things? is it just to keep her happy or is it to keep her preoccupied?
Class- connecting to the inner circle, what do you think are the implications of Montag quitting his job?
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteAfter Montag looks at the books, what decision do you think he will make.
caleb: it seems like there is almost a cloak over society and why montag isnt happy is he has had the cloak lifted. he has peeked through it and seen how flawed inside it is.
ReplyDeleteRachel: How does the government know that she was different though?
ReplyDeleteMaria- No one really knew her and since it was an "accident" the people will not rebell.
ReplyDeleteDominic - You're right, there will still be people who want to protect the books, and those are the people whose houses are getting burned down. I think the author is trying to make you think about whether or not, if majority favors one way, does that make it ok to hurt people who favor against the majority.
ReplyDeleteMackenzie- Mildred is probably too into the norms of the society that she cant control her thoughts.
ReplyDeleteBrendon-
ReplyDeleteWhat difines better? Not eveyone thinks that is the case and that the world should become more simplistic.
Dominic- There probably are people who want to keep books, but there probably aren't enough of them to really make a difference. You have to have enough people, because if there is just a small group then it is easy to dispose of them. Also, a country has to be ready to have a revolution. There are probably people who are wanting to start a revolution, and are getting things ready.
ReplyDeleteClass- Do you think the government official were as brainwashed as the rest of society, or are they trying to control everyone else by keeping them brainwashed?
ReplyDeleteCourtney- That is a good point. i think that Clarisse may have brought her death on because she constantly questioned how things were. Mildred said that Clarisse's dad and uncle moved out why do you think that they didn't die if the government might have killed Clarisse? THey were just as much of talkative and think just as much.
ReplyDeleteBrooke: you make a good point, but do you think that Montag would put these clues together?
ReplyDeleteDominic- I think that the books will stretch his thoughts and make him wonder and curious. Basically, I think he will become the person that the government doesn't want.
ReplyDeleteClass-During their discussion, Captain Beatty talks to Montag about books, censorship, and equality. Are all these things good in a society? At what point do you think they need to be controlled?
ReplyDeleteMaria- The fact that Clarisse had just moved in and suddenly was supposedly killed, that would not have given people enough time to realize her movement needed action. Unless, Montag himself begins this rebellion; possibly not in direct relation to her death.
ReplyDeleteOlivia-
ReplyDeleteI think he trusted Mildred because they have been together for that long 10 years. Even though they don't completely love each other, when you are around with someone almost everyday for 10 years yo have to trust eachother.
Savannah- I think that Montag will be looked upon as a traitor, and also suspicioulsy since he just randomly got up and quit. It makes Montag look like someone who is guilty, so the government will probably be watching out for him. It also changes his relationship with his wife, now that he doesn't have a job and that she now knows that he has a bunch of books.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteClass- do you see a parallel between people today who have power and not happiness to the people in this society who seem happy but really are just forced to be?
ReplyDeleteChris- I wouldn't say that the government officials are brainwashed, but they believe in this cause so much that it is almost like they are brainwashed.
ReplyDeleteChris- I think that some of the government officials are brainwashed but not the ones higher up because they have to control everyone else and make sure people don't start to challange the system or break free too far.
ReplyDeleteCourtney- I agree. I don't think they're trying to control society, they just think the way it is is the best for everyone.
ReplyDeleteSavannah-
ReplyDeleteJust like clarisse. Now that he is curious the government will wan't him gone and the rest will snowball into the rest of the story.
Whitney - All these things CAN be good in a society, but if they are the main parts of a society, and they are used in the wrong way, then they can become deadly. I don't think that whatever form of government they have in Fahrenheit 451 has used these aspects appropriatly.
ReplyDeleteSavannah:
ReplyDeleteI think that everyone in today's society has a reason to be unhappy, but we don't show it because it's a sign of weakness. The people in this book don't really know better than to be happy.
Class-
ReplyDeleteIf everyone has this cloud over their eyes, will Montag start to convince other people, including his wife, that this current society is not all that it seems to be?
Courtney- Clairisse was different from everybody else, and in a society of "brainwashed" people that migh seem like a threat to their lives, so she might have been killed by the people instead of by the government.
ReplyDeleteMaria- I think that it could have been a situation like how neighbors turn eachother in like how the lady who was burned to death was caught because her neighbor turned her in
ReplyDeleteChris-I do not think the officials/leaders are brainwashed. It would be hard for them to think up this system, or keep it under control if they were brainwashed to the same level. This goes back to Harrison Bergeron, where they all had handicaps. There has to be someone to give out and facilitate the handicaps. Someone had to make decisions. What do you think?
ReplyDeleteHannah - Why do you think that the government officials are so worried about people challenging the system?
ReplyDeleteWhitney- Those things arre good in moderation. If there is too much censorship, then the people are in danger. Books provide a gettaway from the world. They are good, but books are the only thing that is good in large amounts.
ReplyDeleteSavannah- Good point. This happiness is fake.
ReplyDeletekelly-
ReplyDeleteI think that Mildred is past being saved.
Chirs- I think they are all brainwashed to think they live in a great society. But, I do think some people don't agree with it, they are just too uneducated to challange it. They have never heard of challenging the system because books and all other opinions have been burned.
ReplyDeleteKelly-
ReplyDeletewell he is already telling Mildred that e has been challenging the system for years by collected all those books.
Maria- that's interesting... are you saying people are okay to act unhappy in the book and are not in today's society?
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteIt really shows that in this society you can't really trust anybody, not even your own neighbors
Kelly - I think Montag will continue to research books and eventually speak out against the system. I don't think Mildred will ever join him though because she doesn't seem to have the will to go through with it.
ReplyDeleteKelly- That is a great thought. I think that Montag could and probably will try and make people see the major flaws of the society that they live in, and also to start a rebellion to change the society.
ReplyDeletekelly- Since Montag has the Why factor implanted in him now, hes questioning the current society. He will probably start with his wife and then move to others.
ReplyDeleteClass- Why do you think that
ReplyDeleteMildred dose not really question why Montag is quitting his job and collecting books all of a sudden?
Class-
ReplyDeleteI was curious what you think Montag's dreams about his wife mean. How does this affect his view of his wife.
Andrea-
ReplyDeleteI thought so too towards the end of the first section, but she does agree to read books with Montag, and maybe she will see the truths the government is hiding like Montag.
Kelly- I think that Montag will try to convince Mildred, but won't succeed, like Andrea said, she's too far into this "utopia". As for other people, there stands a great chance he will get arrested.
ReplyDeleteMaria- I re read your comment and i mixed up what you said. SO ignore my question. sorry.
ReplyDeleteChris- I think that the government officials are so worried about people challenging the system because they want to have and be in power. When people challenge the system they risk losing that. Along with power usually comes wealth and happiness.
ReplyDeleteAndrea - Good point. But what do you think happened to her that got her to this point. Is it just her adapting to the society, or did some specific event make her how she is?
ReplyDeletePaul- Well are books ALWAYS good in large amounts? Eventually we have to come back to the real world, we can not always live in another characters' life.
ReplyDeleteKelly-
ReplyDeleteI think he will because he told his wife about that he sort of regretted eing a fireman because of what they did to the woman. He also fessed up to the books he has been keeping. He must be interested in them if he would of kept them that long.
Chris- The government is so worried about people challenging the system because if people try challenging the system, those officials could lose their power and position and they would rather not risk eveything by allowing people the information they could use to overthrow the system.
ReplyDeletecourtney: i disagree.i believe they are brainwashed in a way. they have been raised this way, so this is the only thing they know. its not like brain washing like they took out their memory but they just told lies to kids so that is how they think too.
ReplyDeleteSavannah- I defiantly see a parallel I think that today with our society changing so drastically that people are not as happy as they used to be. I think that relationships, family, learning, our whole way of life has changed so much that people are putting on a happy face, but deep down the stress is getting to everyone and we are not as happy as we used to be.
ReplyDeleteHannah-
ReplyDeleteNobody in this society thinks why they all think what. The only thing in her mind is what happened to my husband.
Class- Why do you think Montag had so many books hidden away, and yet was worried about his most recent one that he took?
ReplyDeleteChris- I think that one spark of question from the people could start a revolution. They still want control to force their ideas on the people.
ReplyDeleteBrooke - That's a really good point, because during the 1700s when people heard of the American Revolution, many other countries rebelled, but they hadn't thought that it could be any better before they heard about the Revolution. So if people aren't educated, they won't challenge the system.
ReplyDeleteHannah- I think that it is becuase she is so oblivious to everything and it is because they are pretty much strangers and its like no one just asks a stranger why they did what they did
ReplyDeleteOlivia-
ReplyDeleteMildred already found one of the books, so I think Montag was sort of forced to show her everything. I think he also needs a figure like Clarisse so he can talk about the society, and he's trying to make his wife see how Clarisse saw.
Paul-I agree with you. I think the same is true of technology. It can be used to do good things, and it is amazing, but too much of it can be harmful. It is so easy to waste lots of time, and money on technology. Plus, using it too much can be bad, because it lessens the need for using your brain. Books are a good gettaway, but if all you do is read, then that becomes your whole life. And there is always the issue of censorship, and which books are ok and which ones aren't.
ReplyDeleteMaggie-
ReplyDeletei think that she was just raised that way. whereas montag is in and involved in the sytem and could have an effect on the world
Brooke- If you have say a whole wall of books, whether it be fiction or not, they provide knowladge and ideas for the future, the past, or both.
ReplyDeleteBrooke- Good point. This makes me wonder how far into another world Clarisse seems to be in comparison to today's society and the society in 451.
ReplyDeleteMaddie- I totally agree! I think Bradbury is trying to show us that by seeking money, power and success people end up not getting fully satisfied. I think people just hide it with a happy face and I think he is foreshadowing what could happen if this continues.
ReplyDeleteHannah- Yeah, it does seem like it's about time for something to change. As to say...society has been soaking too long in the kerosene of repression, and Montag will be the lighter to change the world.
ReplyDeleteHannah- it all depends on how far they are convinced to this society, it may take more work other than just one spark of question
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteHow would someone suspect you posess books? They can't hear you reading so they would have had to be told or shown by someone else
Olivia - Do you think Montag will use that power to his benefit, and make a difference?
ReplyDeleteAaron- That is an excellent metaphor! The society has been ready to change, they just need someone to jump-start the revolution.
ReplyDeleteSavannah- Love this. Its just one of the examples of morals in the story. Any others anyone cacn think of???
ReplyDeleteCalvin- I think that is a good point. If you teach something to kids and they don't have any other sources to back up the information they are being told that they will believe it.
ReplyDeleteOuter circle- you need to do a better job proofreading your responses. I am seeeing a lack of punctuation, numerous run on sentences, etc... This is formal writing, not IMing.
ReplyDeleteMaddie- I agree I think that the society has changed so that poeple are not as happy as they used to be. Why do you think this is happening? Why are people not as happy as they were?
ReplyDeleteBrendan- I agree with your idea that he will keep the books. I think he kind of sees through all of the things that Beatty told him about the books and Clarrisse may have kind of planted an idea in him that the thoughts that come from books can really be beneficial and definitely a positive.
ReplyDeleteFrank- Just as Beatty had said about Clarisse, they may have a security camera or sommething of the sort to watch everyone in the city.
ReplyDeleteHannah- First of all, we don't know that Montag is quitting his job yet, but I think that Mildred isn't concerned because she doesn't care. As long as it doesn't affect her lifestyle, she is good!
ReplyDeleteFrank - It could be a change in behavior. Look at Montag, ever since Clairese started talking to him about books, Montag conducts himself very different.
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteBradbury has been very vauge so far in his setting and suroundings. Why?
Frank- Like with Clairesse, she had ideas outside the social norms. If someone you know said things outside that box, than they would suspect you.
ReplyDeleteAaron-
ReplyDeleteThat thought about Montag being a lighter is very insightful. I think he is a lot more powerful than he knows, but he also is quite alone as far as trust worthy people.
Anna- well I think it kind of relates to loneliness as well. AS the inner circle is saying, he is lonely. He doesn't really have a family, he barely knows his wife and the only person that he seems to connect with is now gone.
ReplyDeleteHannah-I think Mildred is just so involved in her whole world that she isn't really paying full attention to Montag, and what him quitting his job would mean. Mildred just wants to watch TV, and take her pills, and she seems almost oblivious to the state she is in. I'm not sure she really thought ahead far enough to realize Montag was going to challenge the system. What do you think makes Montag and Mildred so different?
ReplyDeleteJanie: The people are getting bored with what they have, as we often do. We get bored so we buy something new. Like Mildred... they had two wall TVs now she wants another. She got it, is getting bored, and wants another again.
ReplyDeleteDominic- I think that Bradbury wants the reader to imagine their own future, what it would look like and the new technologies that were in the future. He doesn't want to restrict the reader's imagination by giving them a set boundry of what the future looks like.
ReplyDeleteAaron-
ReplyDeleteClassic aaron metaphor. Good observation about what is going to happen. Do you think this change will be positive or negative?
Dominic- The setting is vague to create a mood of mystery, and maybe to keep the readers wanting to know more and keep on reading. There might also just not be much to tell.
ReplyDeleteDominic- I think in a science fiction, it might be better to be vague in the setting so it gives the reader the ability to use his own imagination to imagine the setting. This makes the story more believable, as it takes place in a setting that you imagine. I don't know, this just an idea.
ReplyDeleteClass- Do you think that society is happy?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFrank-
ReplyDeleteI think it is by more knowledge. In the beginning I could assume that Montag reads because he knew authors and book titles that were before our generation. Maybe people watch if their TV isn't on because maybe they can assume people might be reading.
Class- do you guys think that the government is just trying to avoid anyone questioning anymore? I feel like they are trying to get rid of curiosity.
ReplyDeleteCaleb-
ReplyDeleteThis book is very ambiguous. Good observation.
Maria- Good point.
ReplyDeleteLuke- I can see your point that it might take more planning and organization.But i Think that Montag as a fire fighter has enough authority to plant an idea in peoples minds. I mean people would look at him and wonder why he would be questioning the system.
ReplyDeleteAndrea-
ReplyDeleteThere is mention of a Bible, but no mention of any following of religion.
Class- Connecting to the inner-circle, do you think it would be possible to completely eradicate religion?
ReplyDeleteMaddie:
ReplyDeleteThe society probably thinks they're happy but doesn't realize that they could have so much more.
Maddie- Do you mean in general, or in the book? What I have noticed that is strange though is that people who are poor and don't have much tend to be more happier than people who are really rich and well-off.
ReplyDeleteMaddie-
ReplyDeleteI think society is happy because of all the technolody the people have. Also everyone seems happy that everyone is equal.
Dominic - I think Bradbury's ultimate goal in being so vague about the setting, is to leave that up to you. So you can determine when this is. I think that this is a hyperbole of how much technology is affecting us, and how much our world is changing. However, what is happening in Fahrenheit 451 is dramatic, yet possible, so Bradbury is trying to make you wonder is this happening in 2015 or 3086? Is this in America, or even on Earth? Once you think of all of the possibilities, you begin to understands Bradbury's goals and ideas.
ReplyDeleteMaddie- That is an interesting question. While there are some people who are clearly happy with their lives, like Mildred, there are people like Montag and Clarisse that aren't really truly happy with how things are going. I think that there is more of a mask of happiness that is covering the ugly truth underneath.
ReplyDeleteDom- Lets say you were finally released from a prison cell after three years. You'd be absolutely thrilled, right? But if you were put in that cell for a reason, like murder, something bad is going to happen eventually.
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteThe inner circle brought up the TV walls. How do you thinks these were created and do you think they came from the goverment.
Class-
ReplyDeleteKind of going back to the burning of books, how do you think the burning of books makes a person equal?
Dominic- I had the exact same question. I think that this may have to do with the amount of thinking going on. If you think about it, the most development of the setting is when Montag is with Clarisse. Maybe as Montag starts thinking more so does the development of the setting.
ReplyDeleteChris:
ReplyDeleteIf they can get rid of education, why can't they get rid of religion? If they slowly take it away, it'll be like it was never there at all.
Aaron-
ReplyDeleteHow does that relate to the book?
Dominic - I highly doubt they came from the government. Do TVs today come from the government?
ReplyDeleteCourtney- I was thinking society today but I guess in the book too.
ReplyDeleteDom-What was that one short story called with the lions and the virtual room?
ReplyDeleteMaddie- I think people just don't really think about if they are happy or not. For example when Clarisse asked Montag if he was happy he had to think about it and realized that he was not.
ReplyDeleteDominic and Class- I am pretty confused on what the TV walls are? Who are the aunts and uncles???
ReplyDeleteDominic-I think the uncertain setting is purposeful. Maybe Bradbury is trying to get us to focus on the people and what is happening in the society, rather than the extra objects. Although, I do think a more descriptive setting would ADD to the book, not distract from it. It confuses me that we don't know exactly where and when this book is happening. Why do you think he would chose to include the parts he did include? Does that show something about how important they might be to the book?
ReplyDeleteCaleb: you said early that Montag is so concerned about the one recent book he has gotten. well with the lack of religion, that was brought up in the inner circle, the book could be a bible. maybe that book almost opened his eyes and shows him a new veiw of life.
ReplyDeleteChris-
ReplyDeleteNo, it isn't possible to completely eradicate religion. With strong beliefs such as religion, the more you try to get rid of it, the more it will be fought for by those that believe in it. Perhaps there are people who believe in some religion, but they are too afraid to show it.
Dominic- The TV walls, to me, symbolize how society has "dumbed down" and how they are not really thinking outside the box. I think that it is more of a mental prison that the government is using to keep the majority of the population in it's place.
ReplyDeleteCourtney-
ReplyDeleteI don't know if they are necessarily poor they just have a job that doesn't pay much. I am wondering how other people can pay for large things like the parlor walls.
Aaron-
ReplyDeleteAfter you were released nothing bad could really happen, it already happened, you were sentenced three years
Maddie
ReplyDeleteI think if the society is happy it is blind joy following the saying that ignorance is bliss.
Dom-
ReplyDeleteI think it was just an ordinary technology that was developed, like when the TV was developed. They just expanded off of that technology.
Maria - In slavery in America, education was completely removed from the slaves, yet the slaves still had religion which gave birth to the famous gospel song we have today.
ReplyDeleteChad-
ReplyDeleteSo as the book progresses the setting will be more clear as Montag discovers more.
Steven - I completely agree.
ReplyDeleteCourtney- Me too! I don't understand about the aunts and uncles. Are they really talking to her? Or is it just TV? And are the whole walls screens? Why would she want to have the fourth wall?
ReplyDeleteCalvin- Interesting thought, but he hasnt even had much time to know what that book says. They just began reading, how can he already know the be nervous about it? And the Bible is a confusing book, they may not have the knowledge to understand.
ReplyDeleteclass- like Kelly was saying, do you think these people think their happy because that's all they have ever known? I think she said a good point, he was happy until she challenged his thoughts.
ReplyDeleteClarissa-
ReplyDeleteGreat point! Without sadness to compare happiness to, everything would just even out to normal.
Chris: are you saying that we always have something to lean on? In this story, what they "lean on" is tv and technology. So couldn't that replace religion too?
ReplyDeleteFrank- Well, sure you did serve three years, but that doesn't always bring change. And most things that are bad can happen again.
ReplyDeleteolivia- Montag spent all that he had on the TV walls for Mildred, but all she wants is more, and she will never be happy with what she has.
ReplyDeleteBrendon- I think that the burning of books could create the illusion that everyone is equal becuase then it could be assumed that no one knows more than everyone else, thus on the outside everyone is at the same level
ReplyDeleteCalvin- That is an interesting point about that book. Maybe something he read struck him inside and he just wanted to keep that to himself.
ReplyDeleteDominic- I think the walls were created for entertainment or to keep people from thinking they were being deprived of information. An alternative to books that can be regulated.
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteThe inner circle talked about how why had been eliminated from there vocabulary. If you don't ask why you can't challenge the system. Since clarisse asked why, the government killed her.
I don't really think it's something to "lean" on, it's just the way in which you understand the world.
ReplyDeleteCourtney- I see Mildred almost as a free-loader. Do you think that Mildred (or women in general) had jobs?
ReplyDeleteAnna-
ReplyDeleteWere they reading the Bible? Or was it a different book that he stole?
Aaron-
ReplyDeleteYou're right, people won't change their view of you and you still may have an urge to kill, but society has already punished you, there's not much more than can possibly do to you unless you commit another crime
Courtney- Good point, this touches into what the inner circle was saying about how Clarisse is happy. She chose to separate herself from the physical need of "stuff" and looks at the simple things. This society is all about things like tv walls so they cannot see past it as Clarisse does.
ReplyDeleteDominic: But couldn't she still be alive, like the inner circle said earlier? Couldn't she have been relocated or something?
ReplyDeleteDominic - It is hard to determine, because there hasn't been much mention of the governent. However, if he government did create the parlors, then they would be a great distraction, and keep people from talking about the government, and challenging the system. But at the same time, it is very possible that people jsut kept enlarging the TV screen (like we do now) until the point where it reaches the size of a wall. I have no doubt that in our lifetime there will be TV screens the fill up an entire wall, if not more than one.
ReplyDeleteClass- In this "perfect" society do you think happiness exists?
ReplyDeleteClass- Do you think that Montag will become happier after he reads the books? After he gets more knowledge?
ReplyDeleteDominice- If this is true, as the book progresses the setting may not neccessarily develop more and more, but if Montag grows his thinking over the book so would the setting.
ReplyDeleteHannah-
ReplyDeleteI agree because then they people are limited to stay only in that one room, where the TV is. It makes more people equal then everyone has the TV on the wall.
Class-The inner circle brought up that the kids had school. If all they learn is facts and don't read or discuss because they don't have opinions, Why do you think that they have schools? What do they intend to teach the kids?
ReplyDeletePaul-
ReplyDeleteCatalyst, good metaphore. Clarisses is the enzyme and Montag is the substrate.
Class-I think it is interesting that TV is used as a way to distract or deprive the people in the society in F451, Harrison Bergeron, and The Pedestrian. What could this say about TV? Why is it used so much?
ReplyDeleteClass- do you think we need more people like Clarrise in our world? Or do you think there are a lot of people like this today?
ReplyDeleteBrendon- Burning the books makes everyone equal because if one certain group of people (like a racec) are offended by a book, it is not there to make them unhappy and make them feel less than others.
ReplyDeleteMaddie- Yes, because there are probably other people like Clairisse.
ReplyDeleteOuter circle- why are all of you sitting out there? Remember we also need to focus on the inner circle conversation- you can always tap someone out.
ReplyDeleteanna: maybe he doesnt need to read alot of it. even today people can pick out a bible from a group of books because its different. maybe it's that difference that causes the change in attitude with this book.
ReplyDeleteJanie- I think that Montag won't necessarily be happier, just that the knowledge will allow him to see past the set boundries that society has set up for him.
ReplyDeleteClass- Right now, all I can think about is the Matrix. Think about it, society has been repressed and it takes "The One" along with a few others to take down the repression.
ReplyDeleteHannah: They have school most likely to keep the kids at bay, or as close to docile as possible, for just a little while. But how long do they even go to school for?
ReplyDeleteHannah- I think the schools are just to occupy and slightly brainwash kids. They want them to grow up without their natural curiosity and just listen and work.
ReplyDeleteLuke - Where are these people, and do you think any of them have/ will challenge the system?
ReplyDeleteSavannah - I think we do have a lot of people like her, but we could always use more, because it's people like her that help society progress.
ReplyDeleteJanie- I think that he will never be truly happy with society as it is he will keep wanting more knowledge which I think the government will do something about and he will end up getting in trouble.
ReplyDeleteCalvin- How do people know its different? Previous knowledge? I wonder if this society even has that previous knowledge...
ReplyDeleteLuke- Good point, but if they didnt like Clairesse, then they probably got rid of them by the same means. They didnt fit the norms.
ReplyDeleteAaron-
ReplyDeleteOnce again another good aaron reference. Taking pop culture and making something more of it. Keanu Reaves' character defineately has similarities with Montag's plight.