Natalie- At the beginning fire symbolized consorship of freedom, in the end Montag realized that fire was necessary, but only one could burn while the other must put themselves out. If everything burns then nothing is new, it all gets burnt.
Whitney- Maybe he wants to emphasize Montag is really paying attention to his surroundings now, unlike before he met Clarisse and before everything happened.
Natalie- In the beginning in the book, fire was a way to ride the world of evil but later in the book it transformed to evil and was a blanket for the bad things in society and finally became warmth and security in the world.
Natalie-Fire starts out as something good and cleansing, but towards the end of the book Montag realizes the power of fire and how it can be so destructive.
Whitney - I think smell is important because it really gives you more interpretation of what the author is trying to show you. With sight, everyone can be sseing something alike but at the same time completely different, with sound there can be different pitches and unique sounds, but with smell, there aren't too many different ways it can be interpreted.
Chad- The war (and the bomb) are what will allow Montag and the other "hobos" to teach the survivors about books and other lost works of art. Without the attack on the city, there wouldn't be a way into the city without being caught.
Natalie-I think fire didn't really change from beginning to end, it more just changed roles, and took on many different shapes and purposes. For example, it burned books and houses at the beginning, and then towards the end it was used in a campfire, like a light, and in the very end, it destroyed the city. It became a cycle, and came back to haunt the people who took advantage of it.
Natalie- I think at the beginning, fire represents sort of a purity, cleaning the the earth from the "bad" knowledge in books. At the end I think it represents a sheild they are using to block the knowledge in the books from the people.
Natalie- At the beginning of teh book fire is pleasure to Montag and it brings him a sort of happiness. He then begins to see fire as evil and decides when he foats down the river that he can never burn again.
Whitney- I think that when Montag was in the woods he kept smelling things and i think that he felt free and like he had broken the chains of society once he got away from the hound.
Natalie- Bradbury changes the way fire is used because he talks about it giving warmth. He shows that it depends on how something is used, for goof or bad purposes.
Brooke- Its interesting that you say "before he met Clarisse" because the book began with her. What things or techniques in the book give us the ability to make judgment on Montag's life before Clarisse?
Maria - I think he ended it so fast because it leaves room for you to wonder. Instead of explaining every aspect, and how everyone was at the end, Bradbury leaves that interpretation up to you.
Natalie- Fire is an ironic topic. In society they start out thinking it is cleansing them and getting rid of the evil, but ultimately it destroys them. On the other hand, it was destroying books, but if society changes because of the fire it could help books make their comebacks.
Natalie- I think that at the beginning fire represents trouble and cleaning getting rid of evil, but at the end I think it represents evil. It now represents death and it blocks the knowledge that people could have if they were allowed to read.
Victoria- It is like what Granger said, that you never lose information. As he was talking about her, he remembers when they met and that they were actually happy once.
Class- The inner circle referenced how the hobos were putting things in their head instead of on paper. How is this advantegous and how might it help when they are trying to rebuild the society.
Maggie- I agree. He doesn't want to tell the ending because that would dictate our future. He is talking about how he sees the world is going so he wants to give us this story tp think about and make our own decisions.
Maria- I think Bradbury ended the book so fast because the book was about challenging the system or at least trying to make a difference and even if it didn't work as dramitically as they would have liked.
Olivia- I agree. Fire becomes this essential thng that represents security and warmth. "That small motion, the white and red color, a strange fire because it meant a different thing to him. It was not burning. It was warming."
Brooke- I agree with that. I think it is showing how Montag has changed since he met Clarisse, and her influence on her.
Maggie- That is an interesting thought. It is probably true that smell can't be interpreted very differently. I think it is interesting that Bradbury really enhanced and described the setting in this section, because he hasn't enhanced the setting much before that.
Dominic - It reverts back to how things were at the begining of time. Stories were told by mouth and passed on that way. It symbolizes a cleansing of the system and returing to original methods.
Courtney- Bradbury is warning us that we won't really be controlling our own lives soon. The media, government, and our own busy lives will start to control us if we don't stop and look around once in a while.
Chad- i think we are becoming less dependent on books and we aren't communicating through sitting down and talking. I mean, look at us now "discussing" over a blog post.
Victoria- That is a really good idea. I think that it could be some of both. He probably is seeing it in a new perspective, because now he isn't a fireman. He sees the good things that fire can do, instead of just destroying.
Courtney - I think he was trying to warn us not to let technology take over knowledge. In the book technology is everything, and knowledge is nothing. The scary part is that in our world today technology is continuing to grow, and it will soon reach the advacement that it grew to in Fahrenheit 451, so what we have to do is keep knowledge strong, and never let it dissolve into the background.
Anna- I think I just assumed that before he met Clarisse he was like everyone else in the community. He lived his life but didn't really pay attention to details like the moon or flowers or leaves. He was surprised when he met Clarisse and she introduced him to all these things.
Courtney- I think that he is trying to warn us what our society is becoming. He is trying to show us that we need to slow down and take time to be with family and friends and that life is more than TV. It is scary because he wrote this a long time ago and had no idea what this was going to be like, but we are actually heading in that direction. We need to slow down or this is what our world is going to become.
Dominic- This is advantageous for the rebuilding of the society since it is much harder to destroy a mind than it is a book. This also may give the regular citizens some respect for what the hobos are doing, since they are willing to memorize whole chapters of books to protect books.
Kelly- It is interesting that the intelligent people are the outcasts of the society. Ignorance begins to take over and the government figures out that without intelligent people questioning their decisions then they can control the society's thoughts.
Courtney- I think that Bradbury is trying to warn us about a couple things. I think he wants to warn people not to get cuaght up in the busy-ness of life. Like not to only get the information that is fed to us by a TV screen. I also think he is wanting everyone to stop and smell the roses. I think Bradbury wants everyone to keep thier own indivial thoughts and to have unique ideas about everything. And finally to not let others or a certain power control us and who we are.
Kelly- I think the government realized the harmful and power books challenge. They realized this because they didn't want with what happened to Montag.
Savannah- I see transcendentalism in Montag because before he could challenge the system, he had to understand the current society, and how it was corrupt.
Maggie- So do you think technology puts us forward or sets us back? I think in this book, technology was not an advancement. It did not give them more knowledge, it made the government realize they had to take away knowledge.
Kelly- i son't think that people were ignorant, i think that they basically grew tired of books and reading, plus they started burning books because they were offensive.
Jared- Are you saying that, if we put too much trust in the government we have now, then our government will turn into the one in the book? That's a pretty extreme assumption.
Andrea- This is very true. We aren't even communicating through our voice as much any more with the use of facebook and messaging on our phones. Communicating face to face really best tells what a person is trying to say since the tone of voice and expressions of faces both can largely contribute to a conversation.
Savannah- The phoenix is a metaphor because when phoenixs get old they burn from fire and become a new, baby bird, so the fire can represent making things new, young, and better
Savannah- I think that society as they knew it was burnt and it will come out of the ashes and be born again and into something young and strong and better.
Savannah: This whole book I was thinking about how things are born of fire like rebirth. The Aztecs or Mayans would burn a part of the forest so their crops would grow and that relates to the Phoenix. It needed to burn to rebirth.
Dominic- There were probably many people who died due to the nucleur bombs that were dropped. There idea of war in the peoples minds porbably went from entertainment to thet of a dangerous topic.
Brooke - I think it depends on which way technology is used. Technology is a great thing, think about what your life would be like without it. However, if it over takes everything else society, like it does in Fahrenheit 451, then it becomes a bad thing. So yes, technology is good, but in moderation.
Mackenzie- We may be adapting into a faster life style with most people wanting something to fill all the time gaps in their lives. On the other hand, free thought is still supported, and we aren't trying to destroy knowledge.
Dom- I don't think there was any innocent people because Montag and Faber were the only ones in the city that didn't want to destroy the works of the past.
Mackenzie- Lots of his predictions have not come true but they are not far away. Obviously we are not burring books and don't come to school 10 says a week. I think if we keep moving so fast and if we don’t actually take the time to talk to each other and be together these may come true.
Steven If no one or system is checking in on what our government is doing, corruption will begin to set in without the people keeping the government in check. It would take a long time for our government to turn into a government like the one Bradbury is describing, but it is a possibility in the future.
Savannah- I think that the homeless people use technology to assist them, but they don't let it take over their lives. They use technology to make their lives better, and are appreciative of it, but there is an extent to their uses of it. They also appreciate nature, and the simple things.
Dominic- It changes how they think about life in general. They used to think that nothing could touch them. The bad things only ever happened to other people. I'm sure a heck of a lot of people died. But the question is, does that really matter to anyone?
Paul- I disagree, the people didn't ever really have a thought about war, entertainment or otherwise. It doesn't really affect them til they are bombed, and then they are dead.
Class- why do you think when the city was crashing down Montag started repeating Mildred's name even though in the begging of the book he said that he would not cry if she died but yet it seemed as if he was sad that she had died?
Olivia- All throughout the book there were hints of the impending war. The only difference is that people put too much confidence in their military and assumed they would never see war.
Maggie- Isnt it almost impossible to use technology in moderation? No matter what there is alway technology on or near us weather its a computer, a phone, a TV etc.
Kelly- I think that that is a very probable possibiltity, but I think that it was just from denial that bad things or things people do not agree with, so they rid of the proof; books.
Chad- I think it has come true in a way. Tv's, ipods, computers, and cellphones are things that have become a necessity on our lives. How many people do you know who do not own a TV or computer? I think it is kind of scary we have grown to rely on these things so much.
Paul- I think the reason that people don't know war is because they don't pay attention to anything but entertainment. And you're one to talk about spelling.
Maddie- I think that their relationship was more of a friendship. They care about each other and certainly don't want any harm for them, but they don't love each other.
Maddie- I think any answer to the question would be something of a guess considering we haven't really gotten any background on their relationship past the point of where is was a perpetual failure.
Maddie- While the bombs were going off, Montag couldn't stop thinking about Mildred, and imagined a bomb headed straight for her, so it would appear that he was worried about her, and did care about her.
Maddie: Montag probably misses her but it's hard to tell if he actually loved her. Maybe if he remembers more about her, then he'll realize he loves her. How does that relate to reality?
Courtney- The good side of fire is that it cleanses while the bad side of fire is that it takes away knowledge and hurts people and is almost evil in some aspects.
Courtney- I think like that camp fire he saw in the woods some fire can be good like to spark the reality and to make him realize what is good and what is bad and the other type of fire destroys and demolishes everything in his path.
Savannah-The phoenix represents rebirth. In the society, when it gets all destroyed at the end, then they have a chance to start over again, and start a new society. Granger was talking about how the people made the same mistakes over and over again in the society, and they never realize and stop making those same mistakes. It kind of creates a cycle.
Courtney- I think we see the change of fire because there is a change going to happen in the world. It is also possible that once you start to look at the world differently, like Montag, you view things differently.
Paul- No. neither of Mildred's friends care about their families, one just shoves them in front of the TV, and the other has no feeling toward her husband going back to war.
Clarissa- Not to the government. To them those dead people were all just dollar signs. They were just happy to leave them alone until something went wrong.
Maggie- I dont think there is a way to prevent technology knowing more than humans. the key think is how we as humans deal with the technology will decide how our society and lives turn out.
Noah- Yes because if one of your parents dies you will probably cry and be affected by the loss for the rest of your life. If someone that you have never met you probably won't keep thinking and feeling their loss for the rest of your life.
Maggie- In order to prevent a society like the one in 451 is to stay informed and educated. We shouldn't allow things we know are wrong to happen. We need to stay connected not just through means of technology, but personally.
Maggie- I'm not sure there's much that we can do. We are in a constant state of "progress." All I have to say is that people should learn how to get back to the simple things. Actually connecting with people is what makes life great.
Brooke- I agree that it is kind of scary on how much he has predicted and the society that he has further predicted. Realistically though, there are so many people that support and even enjoy stopping and thinking that I don't think that this society is actually realistic.
Maggie- For our society to not end up like Fahrenheit 451 we need to use technology,but we can't let it overpower our lives. A big part in this book was the governmetn taking over and controlling our lives, so we need to keep a democracy. Also the biggest thing that shaped the society in Fahrenheit was the burning of books, so as long as people choose to not burn books we will be good.
maggie- feel. in 451 they dont have conneections to others becaus eof technology but if we can connect to eachother then we will always be able to think differently and feel power and make change.
Courtney- We touched on this idea a little bit above, but my personal opinion is that at the beginning Montag sees fire as a cleansing process that (destroys essential knowledge). Towards the end of the book, he sees it more as the idea of warmth and security to people (an essential element).
Noah- Yes I do think the relationship we have with a person effects how we feel after they pass. If we have a deep relationship with someone and they die, we really don't know what to do without them. They have been a big part of our lives and when they just go, its a big shock. We miss them because they did have an effect on our personal lives.
Brooke- I see this happening, if not so extremely, to our own society. Technology is growing very quickly, and the government has hidden things from us in the past (The Sedition Act).
Maggie- i think that if we keep implementing the freedom of speech and the right to gain knowledge and have classes like this where we discuss and dissect the meaning of things to stretch our brains.
Maggie- I think the biggest thing we can do is slow down. We need to not become so dependent on technology and actually talk to each other. If you think about it like how much do we actually communicate face to face. With facebook and e-mail and texting we have lost that. We just need to take time to get to know who everyone is. I think that all that happened because people just got so absorbed in their lives and didn’t care about each other.
Chad-If they are going back to rebuild the city, how do you think they will make it better? Do you think that they will end up making those mistakes again?
Paul- You are totally going back on what you were saying. Pick a side! I think most people would be thankful that their kids were gone, they are a nuisance to them.
Class- What would be the point of memorizing the books word for word? Are books really that super important that everyone needs to memorize them? Couldn't people just write new ones?
Chad- Thats true, and I think the people who stop and think are the ones who don't follow along with everyone else. I think they are the ones who fight for their cause and not the people who sit back and watch what is hapening.
Class- why do you think when the city was crashing down Montag started repeating Mildred's name even though in the begging of the book he said that he would not cry if she died but yet it seemed as if he was sad that she had died?
Maggie: We have all these books and all these warnings but we never really respond to them. We think it's just fiction and want to keep moving forward. We have the knowledge but we never put it to use.
Smith- I think this book really matters because it is showing what can happen in our future. I think a good point he tried to make was that if one person believes something is worng, then there is most likely another person who feels the same way.
Smith- I think that Bradbury is trying to tell us that we can let technology and government or anything control our lifes. We all just need to take to time to stop and think things through.
Paul- Mrs Bowles talks about children like they are an object, something replaceable. she has had tons of abortions, and then when she actually has kids, there is no love.
Noah- I definitely think that personal relation affects the reaction to the death of a person. I feel sorry for someone when they die in a car crash, but I'm not going to be overly emotional over the fact.
Mackenzie- The things that are being invented right now are just making us lazy. Look at the Snuggie. If the world would make things that are actually productive to learning or somthing like that, then it would be a better place. Even if they just thought of the consequences, we would be in better shape.
Courtney - Do you think that the burning of the books, was the only problem in their society, and the only thing that could make our world like theirs?
Hannah- Mildred seems like a stereotypical person in this era. If all people are alike and brainwashed in this society, maybe he was not sad for just Mildred, maybe him saying mildred is like him feeling sorry for all these people who did not know what was happening in society.
Hannah- I think that it is like that idea of you always want what you can't have. Montag might not have been appreciative of Mildred, until they were seperated, and he realized how important she was to him. Mildred had to leave him in order for Montag to realize that he did have some feelings for her.
Class- This is just a random question/request but I remember Faber or someone talking about the sun coming up during the night and sweating you out of your bed. I cannot for the life of me remember where it was and what the statement was in reference to. Please help!
Maggie- I think it's hard to tell whether or not we are on the right path. I don't believe that we are doomed as the scoiety in 451 is, but I do think that things need to change. If we can prevent a society like the one in 451 it will be easier then allowing it to happen, then trying to change it.
Noah- I think because he had never seen anything like that in all of his years in burning books. He was shocked that someone would die with their books.
Maggie- In some ways, yes. I don't think that it would go to the extreme of burning books, but people are becoming desenitised (or however you spell it). Nothing is personal anymore and it's really changing people.
Noah - When you say connections to others, do you mean like telophones, Facebook, Skype, etc or is there something else? So do you think we prevent the society in 451 from actually happening in our world by using technology in the right way?
Steven- How do you know they didn't have computers? although i guess when thinking about it, computers would give people access to information to throw over the government.
Smith-This book shows the effects of censorship. Everyone has their own idea of what is bad, and so in the end, there is nothing left. I also see some connection with technology. I think Bradbury was seeing how technology could "take over" the world in a sense. In a way, I see that happening, with Facebook, and texting, and how people rarely have face to face conversations. Overall, I think Bradbury was trying to teach how all things are good in moderation. Censorship has a place, and it can protect us, but it can get out of hand. Technology is amazing, and can be really helpful, but it can also waste away your life, as Mildred was an example of. Fire has good uses, but it can destroy if it isn't controlled. Government has a place, and is necessary to have an organized society, but only when its power is under control.
Steven- What do you think that they would be used for? There is every technology under the sun that they have in the society, what would computers be used for that is any different from what they have?
Hannah- I think that Montag loved Mildred, probably not in the way of marriage but in friendship. They lived together for 10 years, and I think that a friendship came out of that. One of my friends I have been friends with for 10 years and I know that if there was a bomb going off around his house I would be devastated. I think that Montag feels that he is losing a friend. Even though she turned him in they were friends and he now misses that.
Class: With the way our society is going, how will we change our future from ending up like this one? Who will change it if everyone stands in the crowd?
Hannah- I think that he realized that she was an important person to him, despite how society had corrupted her mind. I think he realized that he also was just like her at one point, and that she also had the potential to recognize the wrong in society.
Steven- I think that if they also had computers thing would be different. Online once one thing gets out once then it connot be controled. Even if certain information was deleted from the internet if was on there once it can be seen again somewhere else. Information cannot be controled online. It would almost seem worse to the government then having the information that books give.
Whitney- excellent examples with specific connections. Can you connect those examples to Harrison Bergeron or The Pedestrian? (censorship, technology, controlling government)
Maria- If everyone stands in the crowd, like in the book, we need to break out of the norms of that society. It takes someone like Clarisse, who is a rebel in her own society, to make a difference to people.
Class- What did Montag realize in this reading?
ReplyDeleteClass- How do you see the idea of fire change from the beginning to the end?
ReplyDeletePaul:
ReplyDeleteHe realized that nothing is ever lost completely, everything can be found or recalled when needed.
Class- In what ways will the war affect the actions that Montag and the rest of the hobos take to restore society.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNatalie- I think fire starts out as a cleansing thing, to rid people of evil, but toward the end the fire is seen as a bad thing that kills.
ReplyDeleteNatalie- Fire is no longer a pleasurable thing for Montag. It has only turned to destruction.
ReplyDeleteClass-Bradbury emphasized the sense of smell a lot in this section. Why?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteClass- what were your thoughts on page 140 and and 141 when Montag is talking about everything burning?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteClass:
ReplyDeleteWhy did Bradbury end the story so fast? What did it do for the story?
Natalie-
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning fire symbolized consorship of freedom, in the end Montag realized that fire was necessary, but only one could burn while the other must put themselves out. If everything burns then nothing is new, it all gets burnt.
Natalie- Fire went from a destructive tool, to that of the phoenix with rebirth. The outcasts see it as a window of opportunity.
ReplyDeleteWhitney- Maybe he wants to emphasize Montag is really paying attention to his surroundings now, unlike before he met Clarisse and before everything happened.
ReplyDeleteNatalie-
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning in the book, fire was a way to ride the world of evil but later in the book it transformed to evil and was a blanket for the bad things in society and finally became warmth and security in the world.
Natalie- fire ended up destroying the city even though society thought it would help them.
ReplyDeleteNatalie-Fire starts out as something good and cleansing, but towards the end of the book Montag realizes the power of fire and how it can be so destructive.
ReplyDeleteMaria- I think it made the reader think and kind of interprate to book in their own way.
ReplyDeleteWhitney - I think smell is important because it really gives you more interpretation of what the author is trying to show you. With sight, everyone can be sseing something alike but at the same time completely different, with sound there can be different pitches and unique sounds, but with smell, there aren't too many different ways it can be interpreted.
ReplyDeleteChad-
ReplyDeleteThe war (and the bomb) are what will allow Montag and the other "hobos" to teach the survivors about books and other lost works of art. Without the attack on the city, there wouldn't be a way into the city without being caught.
Natalie- I think that in the begging fire repsents life and a flame that should be kindled. but by the end of the book all it does is hurt everything
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNatalie-I think fire didn't really change from beginning to end, it more just changed roles, and took on many different shapes and purposes. For example, it burned books and houses at the beginning, and then towards the end it was used in a campfire, like a light, and in the very end, it destroyed the city. It became a cycle, and came back to haunt the people who took advantage of it.
ReplyDeleteClass - What did you think of that moment in which Montag is speaking about Millie to the others? What is he realizing?
ReplyDeleteWhitney- Probably so you can smell what is going on in the city in the war. Montag also mentioned that the flames smelled different.
ReplyDeleteNatalie- I think at the beginning, fire represents sort of a purity, cleaning the the earth from the "bad" knowledge in books. At the end I think it represents a sheild they are using to block the knowledge in the books from the people.
ReplyDeleteNatalie- At the beginning of teh book fire is pleasure to Montag and it brings him a sort of happiness. He then begins to see fire as evil and decides when he foats down the river that he can never burn again.
ReplyDeleteWhitney- I think that when Montag was in the woods he kept smelling things and i think that he felt free and like he had broken the chains of society once he got away from the hound.
ReplyDeleteWhitney- I think it symbolizes Montag thinking/seeing more clearly. He notices more now. In the city, there was no time to stop and smell.
ReplyDeleteBrooke:
ReplyDeleteBut how?
Natalie-
ReplyDeleteBradbury changes the way fire is used because he talks about it giving warmth. He shows that it depends on how something is used, for goof or bad purposes.
Brooke- Its interesting that you say "before he met Clarisse" because the book began with her. What things or techniques in the book give us the ability to make judgment on Montag's life before Clarisse?
ReplyDeleteMaria - I think he ended it so fast because it leaves room for you to wonder. Instead of explaining every aspect, and how everyone was at the end, Bradbury leaves that interpretation up to you.
ReplyDeleteClass- What was Bradbury trying to warn us about in Fahrenheit 451?
ReplyDeleteNatalie- Fire is an ironic topic. In society they start out thinking it is cleansing them and getting rid of the evil, but ultimately it destroys them. On the other hand, it was destroying books, but if society changes because of the fire it could help books make their comebacks.
ReplyDeleteNatalie- I think that at the beginning fire represents trouble and cleaning getting rid of evil, but at the end I think it represents evil. It now represents death and it blocks the knowledge that people could have if they were allowed to read.
ReplyDeleteWhitney - Or do you think that Montag's perspective of fire has changed? Is he now realizing that fire can do other things than destroy and burn?
ReplyDeleteVictoria- It is like what Granger said, that you never lose information. As he was talking about her, he remembers when they met and that they were actually happy once.
ReplyDeleteWhitney- I agree with you as well, I don;t think fire changed, I think the way it was used changed.
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteThe inner circle referenced how the hobos were putting things in their head instead of on paper. How is this advantegous and how might it help when they are trying to rebuild the society.
natalie-
ReplyDeleteat the begining of the book they think fire is a good thing but the peopel really start to realize that fire is a bad thing.
Class- Why do you think when Montag was down on the ground during the blast did he remember the book of Ecclesiastes?
ReplyDeleteVictoria- He realized that he loved them and they were part of his life and that he would be lost without her.
ReplyDeleteMaggie- I agree. He doesn't want to tell the ending because that would dictate our future. He is talking about how he sees the world is going so he wants to give us this story tp think about and make our own decisions.
ReplyDeleteMaria- I think Bradbury ended the book so fast because the book was about challenging the system or at least trying to make a difference and even if it didn't work as dramitically as they would have liked.
ReplyDeleteMaria- It gave lots of space for the reader to try and figure out why it ended so fast. It makes you think.
ReplyDeleteOlivia- I agree. Fire becomes this essential thng that represents security and warmth. "That small motion, the white and red color, a strange fire because it meant a different thing to him. It was not burning. It was warming."
ReplyDeleteBrooke- I agree with that. I think it is showing how Montag has changed since he met Clarisse, and her influence on her.
ReplyDeleteMaggie- That is an interesting thought. It is probably true that smell can't be interpreted very differently. I think it is interesting that Bradbury really enhanced and described the setting in this section, because he hasn't enhanced the setting much before that.
Courtney- I think he was trying to warn us of a society where we started going too fast and really straying away from the process of thought.
ReplyDeleteClass- In what ways have these warnings come to be true.
Class-
ReplyDeleteThe outcast were really people who wrote books and are scholarly, so how did this society happen? Was it ignorance from most of the population?
Dominic - It reverts back to how things were at the begining of time. Stories were told by mouth and passed on that way. It symbolizes a cleansing of the system and returing to original methods.
ReplyDeleteDominic:
ReplyDeleteWell its very intelligent people, who know the text and can interpret it. They have the sort of insight on the subjects.
Courtney- Bradbury is warning us that we won't really be controlling our own lives soon. The media, government, and our own busy lives will start to control us if we don't stop and look around once in a while.
ReplyDeleteDominic- It helps them hide what they are keeping because there is no hard evidence against them.
ReplyDeleteClass-A follow up question how could this hinder them?
Chad- i think we are becoming less dependent on books and we aren't communicating through sitting down and talking. I mean, look at us now "discussing" over a blog post.
ReplyDeleteClass- do any of you see transcendentalism in Montag or the other "hobos"?
ReplyDeleteDominic- I think it is an advantage in that thought can't be destroyed, but books and paper can be.
ReplyDeleteVictoria- That is a really good idea. I think that it could be some of both. He probably is seeing it in a new perspective, because now he isn't a fireman. He sees the good things that fire can do, instead of just destroying.
ReplyDeleteCourtney - I think he was trying to warn us not to let technology take over knowledge. In the book technology is everything, and knowledge is nothing. The scary part is that in our world today technology is continuing to grow, and it will soon reach the advacement that it grew to in Fahrenheit 451, so what we have to do is keep knowledge strong, and never let it dissolve into the background.
ReplyDeleteAnna- I think I just assumed that before he met Clarisse he was like everyone else in the community. He lived his life but didn't really pay attention to details like the moon or flowers or leaves. He was surprised when he met Clarisse and she introduced him to all these things.
ReplyDeleteCourtney
ReplyDeleteBradbury was trying to warn us about what would happen if we lose touch of knowledge and put too much trust in the government.
Courtney- I think that he is trying to warn us what our society is becoming. He is trying to show us that we need to slow down and take time to be with family and friends and that life is more than TV. It is scary because he wrote this a long time ago and had no idea what this was going to be like, but we are actually heading in that direction. We need to slow down or this is what our world is going to become.
ReplyDeleteDominic- This is advantageous for the rebuilding of the society since it is much harder to destroy a mind than it is a book. This also may give the regular citizens some respect for what the hobos are doing, since they are willing to memorize whole chapters of books to protect books.
ReplyDeleteKelly- It is interesting that the intelligent people are the outcasts of the society. Ignorance begins to take over and the government figures out that without intelligent people questioning their decisions then they can control the society's thoughts.
ReplyDeleteChad- think of all the examples of how society tries to keep us occupied i pods multiple tvs and radios on your way to school or work.
ReplyDeleteCourtney- I think that Bradbury is trying to warn us about a couple things. I think he wants to warn people not to get cuaght up in the busy-ness of life. Like not to only get the information that is fed to us by a TV screen. I also think he is wanting everyone to stop and smell the roses. I think Bradbury wants everyone to keep thier own indivial thoughts and to have unique ideas about everything. And finally to not let others or a certain power control us and who we are.
ReplyDeleteKelly- I think the government realized the harmful and power books challenge. They realized this because they didn't want with what happened to Montag.
ReplyDeleteSavannah-
ReplyDeleteI see transcendentalism in Montag because before he could challenge the system, he had to understand the current society, and how it was corrupt.
Maggie- So do you think technology puts us forward or sets us back? I think in this book, technology was not an advancement. It did not give them more knowledge, it made the government realize they had to take away knowledge.
ReplyDeleteclass- what did you think about the metaphor of the phoenix?
ReplyDeleteKelly-
ReplyDeletei son't think that people were ignorant, i think that they basically grew tired of books and reading, plus they started burning books because they were offensive.
Jared-
ReplyDeleteAre you saying that, if we put too much trust in the government we have now, then our government will turn into the one in the book? That's a pretty extreme assumption.
Savannah- What is transcedentalism?
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteHow many innocent people do you think died in this short war? How does this challenge how people thought about war?
Rachel- Thats a really good thought. I think he is trying to tell us appreciate the small things because they really do make a difference.
ReplyDeleteClass- Which of Bradbury's preedictions have not come true? Is this Bradbury's way of preparing the future generations for what can happen?
ReplyDeleteAndrea- This is very true. We aren't even communicating through our voice as much any more with the use of facebook and messaging on our phones. Communicating face to face really best tells what a person is trying to say since the tone of voice and expressions of faces both can largely contribute to a conversation.
ReplyDeleteCourtney- It's like a way of thought. it's based off living simply and with nature.
ReplyDeleteSavannah- The phoenix is a metaphor because when phoenixs get old they burn from fire and become a new, baby bird, so the fire can represent making things new, young, and better
ReplyDeleteOlivia-
ReplyDeleteIt might be that people grew tired of books, but could that have started from their ignorance?
Dominic- I don't think people really thought much of the war, there weren't any feelings about how bad it is and how many people are dying.
ReplyDeleteSavannah- I think that society as they knew it was burnt and it will come out of the ashes and be born again and into something young and strong and better.
ReplyDeleteChad-
ReplyDeleteGood thought. These hobos have really had a long time to think this over.
Savannah:
ReplyDeleteThis whole book I was thinking about how things are born of fire like rebirth. The Aztecs or Mayans would burn a part of the forest so their crops would grow and that relates to the Phoenix. It needed to burn to rebirth.
Class- I am a little confused what happened with the bombers and the war. Why are the men going back to the city?
ReplyDeleteDominic- There were probably many people who died due to the nucleur bombs that were dropped. There idea of war in the peoples minds porbably went from entertainment to thet of a dangerous topic.
ReplyDeleteHannah- I like that thought. It's kind of like new hope.
ReplyDeleteChad- Definitely. Texting and email have totally desensitized conversations. any kind of actual feeling has been lost, like in 451.
ReplyDeleteDominic- Many innocent people may have died in this war, but the people will be ignorant to this fact. Do the people even know why there is a war?
ReplyDeleteBrooke - I think it depends on which way technology is used. Technology is a great thing, think about what your life would be like without it. However, if it over takes everything else society, like it does in Fahrenheit 451, then it becomes a bad thing. So yes, technology is good, but in moderation.
ReplyDeleteMackenzie- We may be adapting into a faster life style with most people wanting something to fill all the time gaps in their lives. On the other hand, free thought is still supported, and we aren't trying to destroy knowledge.
ReplyDeleteDom- I don't think there was any innocent people because Montag and Faber were the only ones in the city that didn't want to destroy the works of the past.
ReplyDeleteMackenzie- Lots of his predictions have not come true but they are not far away. Obviously we are not burring books and don't come to school 10 says a week. I think if we keep moving so fast and if we don’t actually take the time to talk to each other and be together these may come true.
ReplyDeleteHannah-
ReplyDeleteThat is a good thought, and is most likely why Bradbury emphasizes the importance of the Phoenix in the book.
Whitney:
ReplyDeleteI think they are trying to help the city, but they want to help it their way.
Paul-
ReplyDeleteKind of how it is today except on a musch larger scale aned right here at home instead of overseas in another country.
Steven
ReplyDeleteIf no one or system is checking in on what our government is doing, corruption will begin to set in without the people keeping the government in check. It would take a long time for our government to turn into a government like the one Bradbury is describing, but it is a possibility in the future.
Savannah- I think that the homeless people use technology to assist them, but they don't let it take over their lives. They use technology to make their lives better, and are appreciative of it, but there is an extent to their uses of it. They also appreciate nature, and the simple things.
ReplyDeleteDominic- It changes how they think about life in general. They used to think that nothing could touch them. The bad things only ever happened to other people. I'm sure a heck of a lot of people died. But the question is, does that really matter to anyone?
ReplyDeletePaul- I disagree, the people didn't ever really have a thought about war, entertainment or otherwise. It doesn't really affect them til they are bombed, and then they are dead.
ReplyDeleteWhitney-
ReplyDeleteI was confused by the end of the book and the bombings too!
Class- why do you think when the city was crashing down Montag started repeating Mildred's name even though in the begging of the book he said that he would not cry if she died but yet it seemed as if he was sad that she had died?
ReplyDeleteOlivia-
ReplyDeleteAll throughout the book there were hints of the impending war. The only difference is that people put too much confidence in their military and assumed they would never see war.
Maggie- Isnt it almost impossible to use technology in moderation? No matter what there is alway technology on or near us weather its a computer, a phone, a TV etc.
ReplyDeleteClass- Do you think that Montag now misses Mildred? Now that she is gone does he realize he loved her?
ReplyDeleteDominic Yes- and work on your spelling. They dont know war because it was most likely not on their soil.
ReplyDeleteClass- How do we see the two sides of fire in the book? What is the importance of this?
ReplyDeleteChad- That makes sense
ReplyDeleteMaddie- I agree, it doesnt seem too distant in the future.
Courtney- I agree with that, they seem to grasp the idea that simplicity is better and nature was here first.
ReplyDeleteAndrea-
ReplyDeleteI agree, people were so oblivious to their surroundings that they probably didn't think of the war at all.
Maddie- A little more because when he goes to the country he remembers how they met and the time together.
ReplyDeleteKelly-
ReplyDeleteI think that that is a very probable possibiltity, but I think that it was just from denial that bad things or things people do not agree with, so they rid of the proof; books.
Andrea- But when it is their own family and children that died, wouldn't they care for that?
ReplyDeleteChad- I think it has come true in a way. Tv's, ipods, computers, and cellphones are things that have become a necessity on our lives. How many people do you know who do not own a TV or computer? I think it is kind of scary we have grown to rely on these things so much.
ReplyDeleteWhitney- I think the men going back to the city represents the men going to rebuild a new society.
ReplyDeleteMaria- I like the idea that you need turmoil to grow stronger.
ReplyDeleteClass- What do you see Montag and the 'hobos' doing in the future?
Paul- I think the reason that people don't know war is because they don't pay attention to anything but entertainment. And you're one to talk about spelling.
ReplyDeleteRachel - Good point. So then what do you think we should do in order to prevent technology from overpowering knowledge?
ReplyDeleteMaddie- I think that their relationship was more of a friendship. They care about each other and certainly don't want any harm for them, but they don't love each other.
ReplyDeleteMaddie- I think any answer to the question would be something of a guess considering we haven't really gotten any background on their relationship past the point of where is was a perpetual failure.
ReplyDeleteMaddie-
ReplyDeleteWhile the bombs were going off, Montag couldn't stop thinking about Mildred, and imagined a bomb headed straight for her, so it would appear that he was worried about her, and did care about her.
Clairissa- I was just thinking the same thing(:
ReplyDeleteMaddie:
ReplyDeleteMontag probably misses her but it's hard to tell if he actually loved her. Maybe if he remembers more about her, then he'll realize he loves her. How does that relate to reality?
Class - What do we have to do in order to prevent our world from ending up like the society in Fahrenherit 451?
ReplyDeleteCourtney- The good side of fire is that it cleanses while the bad side of fire is that it takes away knowledge and hurts people and is almost evil in some aspects.
ReplyDeleteCourtney- I think like that camp fire he saw in the woods some fire can be good like to spark the reality and to make him realize what is good and what is bad and the other type of fire destroys and demolishes everything in his path.
ReplyDeleteclass- does personal relation between people effect how we feel after they pass? becasue the woman they burned made Montag think, but not feel.
ReplyDeleteClass- Do you see what is happening in the book in any real societies today?
ReplyDeleteSavannah-The phoenix represents rebirth. In the society, when it gets all destroyed at the end, then they have a chance to start over again, and start a new society. Granger was talking about how the people made the same mistakes over and over again in the society, and they never realize and stop making those same mistakes. It kind of creates a cycle.
ReplyDeleteCourtney-
ReplyDeleteI think we see the change of fire because there is a change going to happen in the world. It is also possible that once you start to look at the world differently, like Montag, you view things differently.
Clairissa- Yes, but the war is probably integrated into their entertainment and they dont realize it because it is a subconcious feeling.
ReplyDeletePaul- No. neither of Mildred's friends care about their families, one just shoves them in front of the TV, and the other has no feeling toward her husband going back to war.
ReplyDeleteMaggie:
ReplyDeleteWe may have the tools to save ourselves, but do we actually use them?
Clarissa-
ReplyDeleteNot to the government. To them those dead people were all just dollar signs. They were just happy to leave them alone until something went wrong.
Maggie- I dont think there is a way to prevent technology knowing more than humans. the key think is how we as humans deal with the technology will decide how our society and lives turn out.
ReplyDeleteNoah- Yes because if one of your parents dies you will probably cry and be affected by the loss for the rest of your life. If someone that you have never met you probably won't keep thinking and feeling their loss for the rest of your life.
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteDoes Montag really not have a family? Did he ever really have a family? Could the hobos and the books he's learned about be his new "family?"
Maggie- In order to prevent a society like the one in 451 is to stay informed and educated. We shouldn't allow things we know are wrong to happen. We need to stay connected not just through means of technology, but personally.
ReplyDeleteMaggie- I'm not sure there's much that we can do. We are in a constant state of "progress." All I have to say is that people should learn how to get back to the simple things. Actually connecting with people is what makes life great.
ReplyDeleteBrooke- I agree that it is kind of scary on how much he has predicted and the society that he has further predicted. Realistically though, there are so many people that support and even enjoy stopping and thinking that I don't think that this society is actually realistic.
ReplyDeleteMaggie- For our society to not end up like Fahrenheit 451 we need to use technology,but we can't let it overpower our lives. A big part in this book was the governmetn taking over and controlling our lives, so we need to keep a democracy. Also the biggest thing that shaped the society in Fahrenheit was the burning of books, so as long as people choose to not burn books we will be good.
ReplyDeletemaggie- feel. in 451 they dont have conneections to others becaus eof technology but if we can connect to eachother then we will always be able to think differently and feel power and make change.
ReplyDeleteCourtney- We touched on this idea a little bit above, but my personal opinion is that at the beginning Montag sees fire as a cleansing process that (destroys essential knowledge). Towards the end of the book, he sees it more as the idea of warmth and security to people (an essential element).
ReplyDeleteNoah- Yes I do think the relationship we have with a person effects how we feel after they pass. If we have a deep relationship with someone and they die, we really don't know what to do without them. They have been a big part of our lives and when they just go, its a big shock. We miss them because they did have an effect on our personal lives.
ReplyDeleteBrooke-
ReplyDeleteI see this happening, if not so extremely, to our own society. Technology is growing very quickly, and the government has hidden things from us in the past (The Sedition Act).
Andrea- they care about their "families" but, true, they dont care about their own kids. If they dissapeared forever, would they care?
ReplyDeleteMaggie- i think that if we keep implementing the freedom of speech and the right to gain knowledge
ReplyDeleteand have classes like this where we discuss and dissect the meaning of things to stretch our brains.
Maria - So what tools do we have, and how do we use them?
ReplyDeleteMaggie- I think the biggest thing we can do is slow down. We need to not become so dependent on technology and actually talk to each other. If you think about it like how much do we actually communicate face to face. With facebook and e-mail and texting we have lost that. We just need to take time to get to know who everyone is. I think that all that happened because people just got so absorbed in their lives and didn’t care about each other.
ReplyDeleteClarissa- Since it's clear we cannot prevent progress in our world how can we use it to our advantage, but not use it to the point where it hurts us?
ReplyDeleteSteven - He probably does not even remember his family as in this society almost all of childhood is away from your family at school or playing.
ReplyDeleteChad-If they are going back to rebuild the city, how do you think they will make it better? Do you think that they will end up making those mistakes again?
ReplyDeleteClass- so why does this book matter? What is Bradbury trying to tell us? What is he trying to warn us about?
ReplyDeleteAs always, make sure to proofread and spell check your responses. You are getting lazy! Also, don't forget there is an inner circle.
Paul- You are totally going back on what you were saying. Pick a side! I think most people would be thankful that their kids were gone, they are a nuisance to them.
ReplyDeleteClass- What would be the point of memorizing the books word for word? Are books really that super important that everyone needs to memorize them? Couldn't people just write new ones?
ReplyDeleteChad- Thats true, and I think the people who stop and think are the ones who don't follow along with everyone else. I think they are the ones who fight for their cause and not the people who sit back and watch what is hapening.
ReplyDeleteMaddie- i like that idea of just slowing down and not always doing something stop multitasking and just enjoy life for what it is.
ReplyDeleteAndrea- But wouldnt there be the maternal love for the kids? Why would they have kids if they dont intend to love them?
ReplyDeleteRachel - So how do we deal with it?
ReplyDeleteClass- why do you think when the city was crashing down Montag started repeating Mildred's name even though in the begging of the book he said that he would not cry if she died but yet it seemed as if he was sad that she had died?
ReplyDeleteMaggie:
ReplyDeleteWe have all these books and all these warnings but we never really respond to them. We think it's just fiction and want to keep moving forward. We have the knowledge but we never put it to use.
Mackenzie - Good point, so do you thing that we are on the right path?
ReplyDeletebrendon- if relationship effects our feelings about death, why did montag feel the way he did about the lady they burned if they had never met before.
ReplyDeletePaul-
ReplyDeleteThey say in the book that they have kids because the population needs to go on. I don't think there is a matronly instinct left.
Smith- I think this book really matters because it is showing what can happen in our future. I think a good point he tried to make was that if one person believes something is worng, then there is most likely another person who feels the same way.
ReplyDeleteSmith- I think that Bradbury is trying to tell us that we can let technology and government or anything control our lifes. We all just need to take to time to stop and think things through.
ReplyDeleteClarissa - So do you think that we are headed toward a society like the one in Fahrenheit 451?
ReplyDeleteClass- PROOFREAD! You are turning into the lazy kids in 451.
ReplyDeletePaul- Mrs Bowles talks about children like they are an object, something replaceable. she has had tons of abortions, and then when she actually has kids, there is no love.
ReplyDeleteNoah- I definitely think that personal relation affects the reaction to the death of a person. I feel sorry for someone when they die in a car crash, but I'm not going to be overly emotional over the fact.
ReplyDeleteMackenzie- The things that are being invented right now are just making us lazy. Look at the Snuggie. If the world would make things that are actually productive to learning or somthing like that, then it would be a better place. Even if they just thought of the consequences, we would be in better shape.
ReplyDeleteHannah: I think it had to do a lot with his memory. He said he remembered how they met and where. So maybe he misses the idea of Mildred.
ReplyDeleteCourtney - Do you think that the burning of the books, was the only problem in their society, and the only thing that could make our world like theirs?
ReplyDeleteSmith- I think that this books purpose is to show us what society could turn into if we keep going in the direction that we are going in.
ReplyDeleteHannah-
ReplyDeleteMildred seems like a stereotypical person in this era. If all people are alike and brainwashed in this society, maybe he was not sad for just Mildred, maybe him saying mildred is like him feeling sorry for all these people who did not know what was happening in society.
Maggie- Not entirerly. We still call people and spend time doing things like hang out and talk about our days.
ReplyDeleteHannah- I think that it is like that idea of you always want what you can't have. Montag might not have been appreciative of Mildred, until they were seperated, and he realized how important she was to him. Mildred had to leave him in order for Montag to realize that he did have some feelings for her.
ReplyDeleteClass-How would this society change if they had computers also?
ReplyDeleteClass- This is just a random question/request but I remember Faber or someone talking about the sun coming up during the night and sweating you out of your bed. I cannot for the life of me remember where it was and what the statement was in reference to. Please help!
ReplyDeleteMaggie- I think it's hard to tell whether or not we are on the right path. I don't believe that we are doomed as the scoiety in 451 is, but I do think that things need to change. If we can prevent a society like the one in 451 it will be easier then allowing it to happen, then trying to change it.
ReplyDeleteNoah- I think because he had never seen anything like that in all of his years in burning books. He was shocked that someone would die with their books.
ReplyDeleteMaggie- In some ways, yes. I don't think that it would go to the extreme of burning books, but people are becoming desenitised (or however you spell it). Nothing is personal anymore and it's really changing people.
ReplyDeleteNoah - When you say connections to others, do you mean like telophones, Facebook, Skype, etc or is there something else? So do you think we prevent the society in 451 from actually happening in our world by using technology in the right way?
ReplyDeleteHannah- be specific. What direction are we going in? What did Bradbury specifically see that he is trying to warn us about?
ReplyDeleteSteven- How do you know they didn't have computers? although i guess when thinking about it, computers would give people access to information to throw over the government.
ReplyDeleteSmith-This book shows the effects of censorship. Everyone has their own idea of what is bad, and so in the end, there is nothing left. I also see some connection with technology. I think Bradbury was seeing how technology could "take over" the world in a sense. In a way, I see that happening, with Facebook, and texting, and how people rarely have face to face conversations. Overall, I think Bradbury was trying to teach how all things are good in moderation. Censorship has a place, and it can protect us, but it can get out of hand. Technology is amazing, and can be really helpful, but it can also waste away your life, as Mildred was an example of. Fire has good uses, but it can destroy if it isn't controlled. Government has a place, and is necessary to have an organized society, but only when its power is under control.
ReplyDeleteSteven- What do you think that they would be used for? There is every technology under the sun that they have in the society, what would computers be used for that is any different from what they have?
ReplyDeleteHannah- I think that Montag loved Mildred, probably not in the way of marriage but in friendship. They lived together for 10 years, and I think that a friendship came out of that. One of my friends I have been friends with for 10 years and I know that if there was a bomb going off around his house I would be devastated. I think that Montag feels that he is losing a friend. Even though she turned him in they were friends and he now misses that.
ReplyDeleteClass:
ReplyDeleteWith the way our society is going, how will we change our future from ending up like this one? Who will change it if everyone stands in the crowd?
Class-
ReplyDeleteIf the media is willing to catch a fake ciminal, What else in this society is bogus. Can they trust anythig that is told to them.
Clarissa- That makes sense, so basically they need to invent things that matter and make a good impact on our lives.
ReplyDeleteHannah- I think that he realized that she was an important person to him, despite how society had corrupted her mind. I think he realized that he also was just like her at one point, and that she also had the potential to recognize the wrong in society.
ReplyDeleteSteven- I think that if they also had computers thing would be different. Online once one thing gets out once then it connot be controled. Even if certain information was deleted from the internet if was on there once it can be seen again somewhere else. Information cannot be controled online. It would almost seem worse to the government then having the information that books give.
ReplyDeleteMaria - Is this book a warning?
ReplyDeleteDominic:
ReplyDeleteDoesn't this relate to the inner circle? It's like where are we going to draw the line next if tabloids bend the truth already?
Mackenzie- Exactly. I've gotten quite annoyed with all of the useless things on infomercials these days.
ReplyDeleteClass- Do you think we really have a deep relationship with the people we know like we think we do?
ReplyDeleteWhitney- excellent examples with specific connections. Can you connect those examples to Harrison Bergeron or The Pedestrian? (censorship, technology, controlling government)
ReplyDeleteMaria-
ReplyDeleteIf everyone stands in the crowd, like in the book, we need to break out of the norms of that society. It takes someone like Clarisse, who is a rebel in her own society, to make a difference to people.